How proficient were the man killers of old?

[11B10]

Ha! Seriously?! Well, cool.

Hope it shoots well for ya. Mine is going on over 4,400 rounds or something. Still chugging along. I've been taking a break from USPSA over the summer since its so daggone hot here in Central FL lately (it was 109 in the car this afternoon - yikes) plus work has been busy - a good thing.

Hope all are well at home.

PS I don't think the guys will mind a little thread drift.

PPS but that book by @Mas is really really good - very enjoyable. I keep it on my Kindle and read it from time to time.

One last drift - only one range trip - approximately 250 rounds - it's a shooter! And...no malfunctions..hey, it's a Glock!

[Dagga Boy]

Okay, let’s reel this back to the original topic. There is a whole section to discuss Glocks.

[PNWTO]

I missed his discussion on splits.....

Reminded me of this quote from Musashi:

“Speed is not part of the true Way of strategy. Speed implies that things seem fast or slow, according to whether or not they are in rhythm. Whatever the Way, the master of strategy does not appear fast.”

I think the "rhythm" of things is tied to the assessment and/or perception of the actor... and we all know that discussion. I had posted yet another Musashi quote in another thread but I think it is fitting here as well:

https://pistol-forum.com/attachment....0&d=1559750186

[Dagga Boy]

We tend to focus on what we can control in training, which is speed and accuracy. There is no particular measure on the ability to be calm and deliberate in chaos and mastery of tactics.

[03RN]

We tend to focus on what we can control in training, which is speed and accuracy. There is no particular measure on the ability to be calm and deliberate in chaos and mastery of tactics.

While I suppose some people are natural I think visualization and exposure to chaos helps.

And some people never get it.

[Dagga Boy]

While I suppose some people are natural I think visualization and exposure to chaos helps.

And some people never get it.

Exposure is a huge factor. Those gunfighters of old tended to be exposed to a lot of real life violence and human tragedy. Not sterile TV stuff, but seeing real blood, real brains, and hospitals and medical treatment that were as horrific as the injuries and as violent as the acts that caused the injury. The gunfighters of the old west had likely not only witnessed, but assisted with field amputation and other medical practices of the day and saw the level of injury and mass deaths during the Civil War that most of us could never fathom. Kill or be killed had some real reality for them and not a slogan on a t shirt.

[Dave T]

DB, in your interview you mentioned we no longer teach assessment. I think it has been lost in our ongoing quest for speed. Cooper's DVI stressed balance but that too seems lost these days.

A year or so back I had a young cop take me to task when I told him I taught firing two rounds, then go to high ready and assess what happened. He told me he was taught to keep shooting until "the target was on the ground". I didn't want to argue (he wasn't buying what an old geezer like me had to say) so I let it go.

Again from you interview, we have to account for every pull of the trigger and every round into the neighborhood. Assess!

Dave

[entropy]

DB, in your interview you mentioned we no longer teach assessment. I think it has been lost in our ongoing quest for speed. Cooper's DVI stressed balance but that too seems lost these days.

A year or so back I had a young cop take me to task when I told him I taught firing two rounds, then go to high ready and assess what happened. He told me he was taught to keep shooting until "the target was on the ground". I didn't want to argue (he wasn't buying what an old geezer like me had to say) so I let it go.

Again from you interview, we have to account for every pull of the trigger and every round into the neighborhood. Assess!

Dave

I had a very similar experience in a recent class.

[RevolverRob]

Exposure is a huge factor.

This is probably the place where the average "good guy" today, regardless of if they carry a gun or not, is lacking. If folks really want an eye opener, read Manchild in the Promised Land. Which while now demonstrating aspects of a culture that is largely gone, reinforces the reality that individuals prone to bad actions are inoculated to violence at an early age and know it well. They are extremely comfortable employing violent solutions and are not perturbed by blood, guts, or brain matter.

If I had to not only guess "man killers of old" were more proficient, it isn't just that they had experienced a lot of violence and death. It's also that they themselves knew how to employ it and when. They didn't start "behind the curve" in violent actions, because the trigger to violence was always just beneath the surface ready to go.

Meanwhile, let's be real, many of us here are not prone to violence or accustomed to using it frequently and thus are slower to put our "fight instincts" into action.

[Motor51]

An associate of mine and I were talking about training etc....
He mentioned a number of people he had known that were very good fighters but did not have much if any formal training. BUT, they were the survivors of many truly brutal conflicts. The survivors were hardened, experienced fighters with no hesitation. The losers died.

In the American west post civil war many had a lot of experience. The winners were experienced. Experience has value if you will learn the right lessons from it.

Several of the people I trained under / with said: about their 3rd or 4th gunfight, it got easier and less stressful. I lack that experience but have no reason to doubt it.

I believe in good training but do not discount experience.

I personally think about this in my profession. The criminal has likely fired his weapon at other criminals and been shot at numerous times in the past. Your average police officer never fires his weapon at someone while on duty. When a gunfight happens it’s nice to have experience.


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