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Thread: How do I go about building my own suppressor (Form1)?

  1. #31
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    Sorry, I wasn't sure of the intent of your statement, but because many people claim it's ok to use businesses that are not FFLs for engraving, such as "trophy shops," I think it's important to clarify that point.

    Also, I'll clarify my own post. Some business that aren't primarily gun related, including some trophy shops, do get an FFL so they can include things like engraving firearms in their business. I used to do business with a trophy shop that had an FFL, for that purpose. They did lots of firearms engraving, both decorative and for NFA Form 1 purposes. However, that seems to be the exception in my experience.

    Also, there is no exception in the law that allows gunsmithing, including engraving, without a license, if the customer waits at the business while the work is being done. That is a myth I often see/hear repeated. There is an exception to the record keeping requirements of an FFL, that they are not required to enter the firearm in their A&D record if the firearm is returned to the customer the same business day, but the business must still be licensed.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/does...cquisition-and
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    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  2. #32
    "Also, there is no exception in the law that allows gunsmithing, including engraving, without a license, if the customer waits at the business while the work is being done. That is a myth I often see/hear repeated. There is an exception to the record keeping requirements of an FFL, that they are not required to enter the firearm in their A&D record if the firearm is returned to the customer the same business day, but the business must still be licensed. "

    Are you sure this is a myth? I know several people advised as such from the state firearms investigation unit and ATF while they waited on their FFL.
    Last edited by shane45; 07-22-2019 at 12:05 PM.

  3. #33
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane45 View Post
    "Also, there is no exception in the law that allows gunsmithing, including engraving, without a license, if the customer waits at the business while the work is being done. That is a myth I often see/hear repeated. There is an exception to the record keeping requirements of an FFL, that they are not required to enter the firearm in their A&D record if the firearm is returned to the customer the same business day, but the business must still be licensed. "

    Are you sure this is a myth? I know several people advised as such from the state firearms investigation unit and ATF while they waited on their FFL.
    100% sure.

    The law requires those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms, which includes engraving, to have a federal firearms license. There is a record keeping exception for licensees to not log a firearm into the A&D record, as cited above, if the firearm is returned the same business day. However, there is NO exception to needing a federal license to be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms, including engraving.

    However, feel free to cite the portion of the US Code, that you think creates an exception to the licensing requirement in 18USC923(a). ATF Rule 2009-1 is also relevant as it states, in pertinent part, "Any person who is engaged in the business of camouflaging or engraving firearms as described in this ruling must be licensed as a dealer, which includes a gunsmith, under the Gun Control Act."

    There is no exception in the law for unlicensed gunsmithing based on the customer waiting while the work is done. I seriously doubt any ATF person said there is, as that is absolutely false, and comments by some State person have zero relevance to the realities of Federal law.

    No need to take my word for it though, feel free to write the ATF and ask if you can engrave firearms as a business, without a federal firearms license. They will respond in writing, with the proper citations of the law.
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  4. #34
    A camel named Charlie... TGS's Avatar
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    @DMF13,

    You know, it's possible to share information without constantly being a condescending prick to everyone.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #35
    Member DMF13's Avatar
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    I provided a citation originally, showing that there is only a record keeping exception. Then was asked if I was sure, by someone claiming to have conflicting information, supposedly from ATF, which is nonsense. So I provided additional citations clarifying what the law requires, and the additional relevant ruling, in writing, published by ATF.

    Since he claimed to have gotten his info from ATF, which again is nonsense, as no ATF Industry Operations Investigator (the people who handle the regulatory function of ATF, including licensing) would tell an applicant it was okay to engage in the business of dealing in firearms before a license was issued, I encouraged him to get it in writing from ATF rather than take my word for it.

    How else would you like me to sugar coat it, so that it doesn't offend your delicate feelings?

    _______________
    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am. Send me." - Isaiah 6:8

  6. #36
    Tech forum, talk about tech stuff. Thanks.

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