Three Row Car Based SUV/Crossover

[Aray]

I don't know if that's entirely true. The clearances on my current day Subaru are definitely tighter than my old Subaru, and my 1985 BMW had extremely loose clearances comparatively. My Outback uses 0-20 as factory recommended, which has a higher flashpoint than the older recommended 5-30 and 10-30...….at one point, some Subarus were burning up cylinders because of the higher emission standards. This is ameliorated by using better oil for the task, as I understand it.

My old '85 BMW used 20-50 by factory recommendations. Engines have continually become more advanced, and continually gone to lighter weights of oil, yet with few exceptions the cars are more reliable than ever......especially American cars. American cars during the 80s and 90s were complete fucking garbage.

I think there's a lot of people these days who are confusing the cart with the horse and who's pulling. I would imagine it's a bigger deal for some cars than others, though.

@JRB, @Aray, anything to share?

(ETA: Darth Uno, accidentally quoted you at first. Sorry about that if you got an errant notification.)

I agree that the main motivation to reduce oil viscosity has been reducing parasitic (pumping) losses to improve fuel mileage.

I don’t agree that engine lifespan has been significantly effected. Advances in oil technology have made the dropping viscosities possible and successful. I remember when 75k miles was “a lotta miles” on an engine.


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[Duelist]

...snip...

Gonna miss this old girl but hopefully I can find a good home for her with someone who will use her capability more. Will..not..die.

Is that a 4Runner?

[Doc_Glock]

Is that a 4Runner?

Yes. And it sold in 3 hours! Crazy.

[Suvorov]

Yes. And it sold in 3 hours! Crazy.

What took it so long?

Count me as a hard core member of the 4Runner Cult. Nice 3rd Gens are getting rarer and rarer.

My experience with 4Runners makes me kind of partial to Toyota vehicles, but that said we bought my wife a used 2014 CR-V a couple years ago and I continue to be impressed by that little SUV. It is very well designed, roomy, drives wonderfully, and gets 30+ mpg with a family of 4 in it. If the Pilot is anything like the CR-V in execution it would be a wonderful vehicle.

[Doc_Glock]

What took it so long?

Count me as a hard core member of the 4Runner Cult. Nice 3rd Gens are getting rarer and rarer.

My experience with 4Runners makes me kind of partial to Toyota vehicles, but that said we bought my wife a used 2014 CR-V a couple years ago and I continue to be impressed by that little SUV. It is very well designed, roomy, drives wonderfully, and gets 30+ mpg with a family of 4 in it. If the Pilot is anything like the CR-V in execution it would be a wonderful vehicle.

Bought that 3rd Gen in 2012 for $8500 and thought I was nuts to pay so much for a 180k vehicle. Updated all the 90k maintenance, tires and shocks then did nothing but change oil and replace bulbs for the next seven years. Total cost of ownership depreciation, maintenance repairs:~$5500 for 7 years use. That is just nuts.

I think we just lost that much on the new one in depreciation driving it home. Ah well I am really impressed with it and this end of design life Highlander is a pretty impressive vehicle dude. The lack of CarPlay is a non issue connected to wife’s phone instantly and voice recognition as good as Siri.

Here’s what blows me away. This is an incredible luxury item, yet they are totally common in today’s world. These vehicles (all manufacturers) should actually cost WAY more when you compare the value of the engineering, manufacturing and raw materials to something like an iPhone. The car costs 40x more than that phone. I think it is worth easily 10x that. Either phone companies are screwing us or car manufacturers are barely scraping by. I have no idea how so much value can be packed into that 40k price. And that coming from a tight wad with sticker shock.

[Suvorov]

Bought that 3rd Gen in 2012 for $8500 and thought I was nuts to pay so much for a 180k vehicle. Updated all the 90k maintenance, tires and shocks then did nothing but change oil and replace bulbs for the next seven years. Total cost of ownership depreciation, maintenance repairs:~$5500 for 7 years use. That is just nuts.

I think we just lost that much on the new one in depreciation driving it home. Ah well I am really impressed with it and this end of design life Highlander is a pretty impressive vehicle dude. The lack of CarPlay is a non issue connected to wife’s phone instantly and voice recognition as good as Siri.

Here’s what blows me away. This is an incredible luxury item, yet they are totally common in today’s world. These vehicles (all manufacturers) should actually cost WAY more when you compare the value of the engineering, manufacturing and raw materials to something like an iPhone. The car costs 40x more than that phone. I think it is worth easily 10x that. Either phone companies are screwing us or car manufacturers are barely scraping by. I have no idea how so much value can be packed into that 40k price. And that coming from a tight wad with sticker shock.

Congrats on the car!

I'm happy for whoever bought your 4Runner as well. I honestly know more people who have had their 4Runners totaled in accidents than I know people who have junked them of "old age."

[JRB]

I don't know if that's entirely true. The clearances on my current day Subaru are definitely tighter than my old Subaru, and my 1985 BMW had extremely loose clearances comparatively. My Outback uses 0-20 as factory recommended, which has a higher flashpoint than the older recommended 5-30 and 10-30...….at one point, some Subarus were burning up cylinders because of the higher emission standards. This is ameliorated by using better oil for the task, as I understand it.

My old '85 BMW used 20-50 by factory recommendations. Engines have continually become more advanced, and continually gone to lighter weights of oil, yet with few exceptions the cars are more reliable than ever......especially American cars. American cars during the 80s and 90s were complete fucking garbage.

I think there's a lot of people these days who are confusing the cart with the horse and who's pulling. I would imagine it's a bigger deal for some cars than others, though.

@JRB, @Aray, anything to share?

(ETA: Darth Uno, accidentally quoted you at first. Sorry about that if you got an errant notification.)

Subarus were burning up cylinders and destroying pistons because of the relatively poor oiling system the EJ series engines suffer from, combined with exceptionally lean fuel mapping that kept targeting stoich conditions at dangerously high rpm and boost levels. Aftermarket tuning was absolutely a reliability modification and they were mapped so lean to pass Fed emissions standards.

I have based oil choices on HP level for some time and if the engine is stock or near stock I have seen excellent results with the Dexos-1 certified Mobil-1 0w20 and 5w30 for applications using those viscosities. For much higher HP (generally 50% more than OE or more) I switch to Valvoline VR1 10w30 or 20w50. This is regardless of the stock clearances or recommendations because higher component loading at higher rpm simply needs better oil, and VR1 has proven itself to me in countless bigh HP builds I've worked on. Overall I am not convinced that thicker oil is stronger because I've seen a lot of engine failures particularly in WRX's with the oft touted Rotella T that's intended for diesel engines. Diesels have very high component loading but generally very low bearing speed and piston speed and overall very low revs so I have concluded that rotella is either a mediocre oil and does not mitigate the design flaws of the Subaru EJ engines oiling system, or it is an excellent diesel oil that is not formulated for the higher rpm and bearing speeds of a gasoline engine.

With modern European cars, particularly turbocharged ones, the Euro formula 0w40 Mobil 1 is excellent and I've been experimenting with it in some of my favorite older turbo Japanese cars (an MR2 turbo and a 300ZXTT) and so far so good, though I haven't had a chance to send oil samples out because of work obligations, and likely won't for quite some time. The older German made Castrol Syntec was also outstanding but it is hard to find these days.

For older cars like your BMW, I would choose the VR1 20w50 or Mobil 1 0w40 Euro. In colder climates and daily driving I'd lean toward the 0w40, for track days and performance driving I'd lean toward the VR1.

That all said, on newer vehicles there can be warranty claim issues if you change the oil yourself or use oil different than recommended. So if anything does go wrong in the engine they will generally try to weasel out of covering it under warranty.
But if you pay the arm and a leg to have a record of oil changes at the dealership using the factory recommended oil at the correct intervals, they will have a much harder time denying warranty coverage.

[rob_s]

I understand the new design, 2020 Ford Explorer, starts shipping in July. We are looking at an ST, with the 400 horsepower engine, to replace a boring current year 4Runner.

Still considering one of these?

I admit, I'm getting more and more interested in them.