Three Row Car Based SUV/Crossover

[Spartan1980]

Sometimes I LIKE things I don't really understand.

CAFE payments to the .Fed by the automakers are a real thing. Currently the automakers have to have an average of 54.5 MPG for all the vehicles they sell, but Trump has frozen (or is trying to freeze) that at the pre-Obama number of 37 MPG. If they fall short of that, they have to pay the .fed a "penalty" payment for non-compliance. They can fall short based on sales too, like if Ford sells more F150s and Explorers than their Focus, so there are a lot of factors at work.

Pumping the oil through an engine takes a surprising amount of power to do. It's a definite eye opener the first time you prime a pump when you build an engine and it is a definite drag on fuel consumption. So over the years the higher ups at the automakers have pulled rank over the design engineers and made them spec lighter and lighter viscosity oils and other fluids because they are easier to pump and have less drag. That's why if I look in the owner's manual for my F150 with a 5.4L I see that it says to use 5W30 or 10W30 oils, but yet they've since issued a TSB (technical service bulletin) that states that 5W20 will "yield better performance and durability" and that's what is to be used. It's a complete crock. The same vehicle with the same engine is spec'd to use 10W30 in Australia. Kind of odd. I run 10W30 in my F150.

The automakers are basically being "shook down" by the .gov and they do all they can to minimize the damage. FYI, be on the lookout, 0W16 weight oils are coming soon. And they'll be touted to be superior to anything else out there.

[Darth_Uno]

I don’t want to be the guy that spouts “my buddy said” nonsense, but on another forum a member in the auto design industry said trucks and SUV’s are the money-maker. The only reason GM/Ford/Dodge still even makes compact cars is because it’s cheaper to make hardly any money on fuel efficient cars and get the CAFE credit, vs just taking the CAFE hit on gas hog trucks.

Never mind the impact of building and maintaining said cars. From an environmental standpoint, it’s spending a dollar to save a dime.




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[JAD]

Could you expand on that?

I believe you as I know little about cars but it does sound counterintuitive.

I just have a user's perspective but someone like Spartan can probably add technical.

In my experience with the Volvo (2014 V60, shitty car in general) my wife drove it with the s/s switched off for a month because she didn't like it, and then eventually caved in and left it on. When she did we jumped like 2 mpg (I have slept since then). That was Kansas City driving, not so much interstate.

From an industry perspective all I know is 1) the lithium ion batteries for S.S, which are different than normal lead acid starter batteries and different than propulsion batteries for PHEV/HEV/BEVs, are in crazy demand and b) the car makers like it because it makes the fleet consumption numbers better.

[theJanitor]

I've got no ideas about the cars, but long term, I'd rather own a NA motor over a turbo'd one.

[Doc_Glock]

I spent a considerable amount of time looking into the Pilot vs Highlander AWD systems, and the Honda clearly outperforms the Toyota under most circumstances. Technical explanation here:

http://youwheel.com/home/2017/05/07/...sive-analysis/

Video:

[Doc_Glock]

Welp, finally got a chance to check out all the various trims and test drive the Pilot and Highlander back to back. Highlander wins. Easily actually.

Pilot drives and feels like a minivan. That isn't a bad thing, it just isn't what my lady is looking for. It excels at interior space, visibility, and the third row hands down is easier to access and use.

The Highlander had a much more refined drivetrain, was quieter, handled nicely, and for our limited needs, I will take the less capable AWD system.

Looked hard at the SE, but actually preferred the second row bench to the captain's chairs that are mandatory on the SE. So XLE it is.

Thanks for all the input folks.

[0ddl0t]

Here's what is known about the 2020 Highlander redesign, due in 5 months: https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/highlander/2020/

If you don't need it soon, I'd wait either to get the updated model or to get a much better deal on the "old" 2019...

[ranger]

I am preparing for retirement and - hopefully - to travel all over the US by car. We just bought a 2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Touring. We were looking for 1) station wagon like utility, 2) all the new digital safety features, 3) lots of room without lots of size (i.e. - did not want to park a Suburban, etc.), 4) AWD in case bad weather. We purposely got the top of the line Touring and the 6 cylinder engine. No - it is not a 3 row but we chose not to go that big.


We went ahead and pulled the trigger in the 2019 even though we know there is a major redesign in 2020 - wife wanted the 6 versus the turbo 4 in 2020. I got a great deal - I shopped around and several Subaru dealers offered $5000 off list plus 0% financing for 3 years. Worked with the dealer who had the color my wife wanted - Green - plus best tradein on my 2011 BMW 335i coupe.


So far it is meeting our expectations. I am not a fan of the CVT but I made that compromise. It is not a performance SUV but I was not willing to pay that price. Plus - I got my 2015 RAM 1500 back from my wife!

[Doc_Glock]

Well, picked this up today. Thanks all.



Coming from a bunch of 15-20 year old cars this thing is mind blowing. The wife is very satisfied. The auto off function does not bother me in the least.

Gonna miss this old girl but hopefully I can find a good home for her with someone who will use her capability more. Will..not..die.

[TGS]

CAFE payments to the .Fed by the automakers are a real thing. Currently the automakers have to have an average of 54.5 MPG for all the vehicles they sell, but Trump has frozen (or is trying to freeze) that at the pre-Obama number of 37 MPG. If they fall short of that, they have to pay the .fed a "penalty" payment for non-compliance. They can fall short based on sales too, like if Ford sells more F150s and Explorers than their Focus, so there are a lot of factors at work.

Pumping the oil through an engine takes a surprising amount of power to do. It's a definite eye opener the first time you prime a pump when you build an engine and it is a definite drag on fuel consumption. So over the years the higher ups at the automakers have pulled rank over the design engineers and made them spec lighter and lighter viscosity oils and other fluids because they are easier to pump and have less drag. That's why if I look in the owner's manual for my F150 with a 5.4L I see that it says to use 5W30 or 10W30 oils, but yet they've since issued a TSB (technical service bulletin) that states that 5W20 will "yield better performance and durability" and that's what is to be used. It's a complete crock. The same vehicle with the same engine is spec'd to use 10W30 in Australia. Kind of odd. I run 10W30 in my F150.

The automakers are basically being "shook down" by the .gov and they do all they can to minimize the damage. FYI, be on the lookout, 0W16 weight oils are coming soon. And they'll be touted to be superior to anything else out there.

I don't know if that's entirely true. The clearances on my current day Subaru are definitely tighter than my old Subaru, and my 1985 BMW had extremely loose clearances comparatively. My Outback uses 0-20 as factory recommended, which has a higher flashpoint than the older recommended 5-30 and 10-30...….at one point, some Subarus were burning up cylinders because of the higher emission standards. This is ameliorated by using better oil for the task, as I understand it.

My old '85 BMW used 20-50 by factory recommendations. Engines have continually become more advanced, and continually gone to lighter weights of oil, yet with few exceptions the cars are more reliable than ever......especially American cars. American cars during the 80s and 90s were complete fucking garbage.

I think there's a lot of people these days who are confusing the cart with the horse and who's pulling. I would imagine it's a bigger deal for some cars than others, though.

@JRB, @Aray, anything to share?

(ETA: Darth Uno, accidentally quoted you at first. Sorry about that if you got an errant notification.)