Down the Practical Hole

[Rex G]

It’s been a long time since I took the class, and almost as long since I’ve hung out in those circles, but I seem to recall that folks who had done so with DBM guns reported the opposite IIRC because the reloading in question is really a continuous topping up more so that a changing of mags, and loose Ammo management is easier than mag management in those cases.

Now if we are talking about sticking a 20- or 30- round mag in the gun in order to AVOID the reloading then that’s another thing entirely, but I would argue that you’d miss one of the great benefits and enjoyments of the class.

Good to see this information. Thanks!

One reason I never quite got around to buying a Steyr Scout Rifle, was its inability for its magazine to be single-loaded from the top. It is possible to lock the mag in the lower position, enabling single-loading into the ejection port, while maintaining the magazine’s round in reserve, but that is not the same as being able to load as many rounds as I want, directly into the magazine, while it remains inside the weapon. Finding Steyr Scout DBMs, in stock, is not easy, which would seem to make the ability to re-charge the mag, in the field, with the mag inside the weapon, more important.

In the distant past, some time in the Eighties, when I briefly owned an 1903-A3, I never got around to acquiring any stripper clips, so I only loaded single rounds, from the top, but otherwise, recall little. In the late Nineties, after buying my second turn-bolt rifle, a left-hand-action Winchester Model 70 Safari Express, I practiced loading single .375 H&H cartridges, from the top, and did so with earnest diligence, as my wife had the fever to go to Africa. (We never made it to Africa.)

Of course, the huge 375 H&H cartridge is easier to handle, singly, than .223/5.56 NATO, and that is with warm hands. I’ll need to add a reminder, in my calendar, to experiment with this, in January/February cold. My only .308 Winchester rifles, at present, are Browning BLRs, whose DBMs cannot be loaded, while still in the weapon, but I can probably rig a mock-up, if I have not yet bought a suitable, currently-planned turn-bolt weapon, by then. (I hope to have at least one turn-bolt rifle, suitable for 100-1000-pound mammals, fully vetted by early November, and deer season is not the reason.)

[OlongJohnson]

You'll probably get smoother feeding from the single stack mag.

Your Grendel uses AR mags. Have you been sufficiently disappointed with feeding smoothness that you'd choose a single-stack mag instead if it was available?

[Rex G]

This discussion is a reminder that I really need to drive to Collectors Firearms, which would have a suitable number of samples on the racks, to verify which DBM turn-bolts have sufficiently-spacious clearance to top-load the magazines. I recall that at least one Sako model, the Black Bear, was specifically stated, by SAKO, as having a DBM capable of being loaded from the top, while the mag is inside the weapon. Collectors Firearms does not show to have a Black Bear in-stock, but several other Sako rifles are on display.

I will be looking at the Tikka rifles, too, of course.

[jlw]

Your Grendel uses AR mags. Have you been sufficiently disappointed with feeding smoothness that you'd choose a single-stack mag instead if it was available?

Yes and no. The RAR has smoothed up considerably, or perhaps the magazine has broken in some (or both). I bought several mags, but I have been using the same 10-rounder in all of the shooting I have done with it. I am not looking to scrap the rifle by any means, but it is nowhere near as smooth as several Lund's rifles that I shot.

If I were building a rifle, I would probably go with the AICS.

[rob_s]

One has to take into account the era in which the rifle was produced. Sure, I'd love a classic bolt rifle with an internal magazine that can easily be topped on the fly; however, when I began this project, it seemed that most bolt rifles were being produced currently with three or four round detachable mags. If I am going to be forced into a detachable mag, I'm going with something that uses AR or AICS mags.

When it comes to the actual Practical Rifle class itself...

IMO the whole thing is such an anachronism that to attempt some kind of blending is like asking if you'll see a drop in your 1/4 mile times out of your horse and buggy by adding a K&N air filter.

There are still a LOT of great reasons to build up a gun and take the class and *not* try to "hack" the manipulations etc.

But at the end of the day it's still a lightweight bolt action with a limited capacity and a horrible cyclic rate.

[peterb]

Just saw a positive review of the Sig Cross folding-stock bolt-action rifle in “Outdoor Life”. Has anyone here tried one?

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-cross-rifle.html

[OlongJohnson]

Yes and no. The RAR has smoothed up considerably, or perhaps the magazine has broken in some (or both). I bought several mags, but I have been using the same 10-rounder in all of the shooting I have done with it. I am not looking to scrap the rifle by any means, but it is nowhere near as smooth as several Lund's rifles that I shot.

If I were building a rifle, I would probably go with the AICS.

Interesting.

My reading on snipershide indicates that the Tikka CTR mag feeds considerably more smoothly than pretty much all AICs mags. At least in a Tikka.

I've also noted that the Howa Mini had many issues with Grendel feeding from the factory mags, but there doesn't seem to be a similar background noise of complaints in the other calibers.

(It would be nice to have funds and time to just try them all...)

[HCM]

Just saw a positive review of the Sig Cross folding-stock bolt-action rifle in “Outdoor Life”. Has anyone here tried one?

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/sig-cross-rifle.html

They are not yet available at dealers. supposed to be coming soon...

[jlw]

Interesting.

My reading on snipershide indicates that the Tikka CTR mag feeds considerably more smoothly than pretty much all AICs mags. At least in a Tikka.

I've also noted that the Howa Mini had many issues with Grendel feeding from the factory mags, but there doesn't seem to be a similar background noise of complaints in the other calibers.

(It would be nice to have funds and time to just try them all...)

Lund's Tikka was very smooth. He had a Howa as wells, and the only issue that I saw with it was that the mag release was exposed and in a location that allowed for the mag to get inadvertently dropped from the rifle.

[jlw]

I wanted a bolt rifle simply because I wanted a bolt rifle, and I never made any claims as to trying to turn it into an AR or to compete with an AR. In fact, in the very article that started this thread, I asserted that the AR pattern is the most practical rifle in the current era.

When I want or need an AR, I'll grab one of my ARs and not my bolt rifle.