Auburn. Best, JonOriginally Posted by Drang
Auburn. Best, Jon
I have noticed that health professions are well represented on this board, which is great! I'm a PA and former Army medic. I respectfully disagree with this advice. Pocket carry holsters can be reasonably secure, but in my experience, becomes much less secure when the garment is not being worn on the body or if the person is being positioned outside of the typical standing or sitting. When a firearm falls out of a patient's pocket and lands on the ground, this can be very alarming. Many healthcare workers are not experienced with or comfortable with firearms and this can create a major incident especially if the weapon is prohibited by facility policy and/or by law.
Last edited by FreedomFries; 06-19-2019 at 09:52 AM.
I am not a health care professional, but share your happiness in seeing many here.
You make very good points about the possible downsides of pocket carry. However, I specifically use pocket carry when I have to get undressed because it is the only method of carry that keeps the gun hidden throughout that process. Being careful about the orientation of the pocket containing the gun has always prevented the gun from falling out.
Fanny pack carry could also work if the fanny pack is well designed not to look like a gun pack. Coronado Leather packs are particularly good for this.
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Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.
FreedomFries, I'm not sure what you're thinking of, but if the pocket pistol (ideally something like a S&W 340PD revolver) is secure within the pocket holster (retention better than a "slip fit"), and the pocket holster is secure within the pocket (such that it won't fall out of the pocket if the garment is inverted), there'll be no reasonable chance of the weapon "falling out" of the pocket.
We are, after all, assuming the NPE, and the paramount desire that the presence of the sidearm should remain inobvious to all casual observers.
The capability for effective personal defense, should a genuine need for a firearm defense actually arise, is the reason for the CCW, but is superseded in this case by the need for non-discovery by others.
If a metal detector, "pat down" or other actual search of one's person or belongings is reasonably to be anticipated, then any variety of CCW is pretty much out. Likewise, if one's personal possessions are likely to be stored or manipulated by hospital personnel, as with an in-patient admission, it's better not to bring a weapon, IMHO.
If OTOH, one reasonably anticipates an out-patient experience, with no expectation of ones' belongings being taken or searched, pocket carry will probably be easier to conceal and to keep (securely) concealed than an OWB, IWB, AIWB, shoulder or ankle rig.
Was it your opinion that there is a better method?
"Therefore, since the world has still... Much good, but much less good than ill,
And while the sun and moon endure, Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
I'd face it as a wise man would, And train for ill and not for good." -- A.E. Housman
I should backtrack a bit. I am not totally against pocket carry provided the holster retains the firearm when inverted even with some basic movement and there is some reasonable means to prevent the pistol and holster from coming out of the pocket. I am mostly against pocket carry the way I see it commonly done, which in my opinion is very cavalier. I am not an expert on pocket carry technique or equipment, however a lot of what I have seen seems unsatisfactory to me from a retention or safety standpoint. It looks like most holsters rely on friction between the outside material of the holster and the inside of the pocket to anchor the holster. Therefore, these holsters are then designed with light retention so that you can reliably draw the pistol without pulling the whole holster out of the pocket. While some of these soft holsters may retain a J frame well because of the cylinder providing some structure to wrap around, most pocket carriers are now carrying small flat sided semi-automatic pistols. I did experiment briefly with an LCP shortly after its release, and was not comfortable with the retention in some popular holsters. To worsen matters, I have noted that many pocket carriers place them in loose pockets that have no way to secure the opening (such as a zipper or snaps).
For a while, my preferred method for NPE where it is legal to carry was to use a messenger bag with a velcro or snap secured area to keep it from falling out or being seen. I used to carry a laptop case with a discrete Velcro closed area. I would keep it in my control at all times. A friend called it my "chaperone" because I wouldn't go anywhere without it or leave it unattended. He was not aware of its contents other than the laptop and paperwork that I had. I would never advise someone to carry in an NPE where it is illegal to carry. I also have started keeping a steel combination lock box with security cable to secure to my seat frame in my car if I have to leave my firearm in the car.
Last edited by FreedomFries; 06-19-2019 at 01:20 PM.
NPE carry is worthy of its own thread. For a ten year period, that was what I did on a daily basis.
If you have a friend calling ur bag your "chaperone" then you have created an out of place thing that people will focus on and try to figure out why it is out of place. In particular, the women in the workplace will notice things that the men will not, and they will gossip about it as they try to figure out why it is that way.
It is way too easy for your bag to be separated from you in a variety of ways. Depending on the workplace, your bag may also be more likely to be searched than your person.
Pocket carry depends in part on the pocket itself to retain the gun. Regarding holsters, take a look at the Aholster. It has a perfect level of retention for what it is. It uses either a hook near the rear sight or a hook below and behind the trigger guard to catch the lip of your pocket as you draw, separating the holster from the gun. Both devices are present, and either one catching the pocket will work.
Here is a really good thread on pocket carry.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....0-Pocket-Carry
The idea behind a rabies vaccine is to give a person killed/inactivated virus so that their body produces antibodies to the live virus that will protect against infection. Anyone who is at high risk for rabies exposure (animal Control workers, rabies virologists, etc.) should get this series of vaccine shots. However, it takes a couple weeks for your immune system to produce sufficient antibodies to protect against rabies infection. As you can imagine that 2 week window is no bueno if you just got bit by a rabid animal and the incubation can be as short as 1 week. Thus, we give people an additional medication called rabies immunoglobulin (RIG) which are preformed antibodies that will bind-up as much virus as possible while we wait for your immune system to respond to the vaccine with your own antibodies. That one time dose of RIG is given in/around the bite to bind-up as much virus as possible which is concentrated at the bite for the first week. For big people who get a lot of RIG, we give about half at the bite site and the rest upstream but away from the vaccine so that it does not bind up the vaccine.
I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.
I like that thorough, informative explanation!
At the time my bag was nicknamed probably a decade or more ago, I actually did not use it for concealed carry. It was years later I realized that since I was known to carry a messenger bag most of the time, that I could use it on occasion to also discretely carry when it would be socially unacceptable to carry. Back then, I was a young, hip dude wearing tight selvedge jeans riding a bicycle around town with a messenger bag, so it didn't look out of place. I used it mostly for hanging out socially where being discovered carrying would lead to being ostracized, but no real serious consequences beyond that. For people where the consequences of being discovered are potentially more serious than that, then maybe a bag is a terrible idea. I also agree with your concerns about being separated from the bag. If someone routinely carries off body, it is probably very easy to get complacent about securing their bag properly. I hear about this quite often with purse carry and children inadvertently gaining control of a weapon. This is usually tragic when it happens and has to be avoided. However, the topic was basically about a short term single occasion where you might have to change clothes or partially undress. In those circumstances, temporary bag carry is a reasonable choice provided it is legal and you are certain that you will be able to maintain control over the bag.
Unfortunately, when I think about pocket carry, I think about an incident where a patient did not maintain positive control of his pistol, which has left me with a lasting negative opinion about that carry method. Thanks for sharing the thread about pocket carry. I will review it and learn more about the topic.
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