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Thread: H&K in trouble?

  1. #41
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    HK could take a trip into a chapter 11 type re-org bankruptcy and the product lines are certainly valuable enough to survive in a re-organized company, perhaps with yet another change in ownership. I've lost count of how many of those ownership structure changes at HK have transpired since the end of the cold war.

    They never have reached their true sales potential because of head up the ass management when it comes to their past sales policies and philosophy, especially in the U.S. market, and the attitudes of their home country government have been quite harmful for global LE/Mil sales.

    Being an armorer type, I rarely send a gun back to the factory unless it is something I know I cannot or should not repair or change myself. I am buying HK spare parts for normal repairs, not to have a lifetime supply if they go broke in this cycle.

  2. #42
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    However that works.

    When HK goes out of business I guess the US taxpayer will have to pay to rearm the USMC.

    I'm still trying to figure out why the USMC needs a piston rifle and if they do, why a US company can't build it.
    Well, on the piston part, it's no secret that a good piston gun has several advantages over DI when you're looking at suppressing, as well as using FA. The M27 was purposed to be used FA, and suppressors are now a general issue item in the USMC rifle squad. The M27 has a significant advantage over a DI system for this use.

    As for "why a US company can't build it," that's already been addressed. It is partially US built, to begin with. Opening up the solicitation to the American community instead of being a single source rifle would have been more expensive to the American taxpayer in the longrun.

    Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Well, on the piston part, it's no secret that a good piston gun has several advantages over DI when you're looking at suppressing, as well as using FA. The M27 was purposed to be used FA, and suppressors are now a general issue item in the USMC rifle squad. The M27 has a significant advantage over a DI system for this use.

    As for "why a US company can't build it," that's already been addressed. It is partially US built, to begin with. Opening up the solicitation to the American community instead of being a single source rifle would have been more expensive to the American taxpayer in the longrun.

    Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.
    What suppressor did the USMC wind up going with ?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    What suppressor did the USMC wind up going with ?
    I don't know if they decided on an enterprise-wide solution yet. I think the last thing I read about a rifle company deployed was with KACs(?), don't quote me.

    I think they've got some projects going on for an integrally suppressed 14-16" URG going on as part of the Sea Dragon project.

    @rbusmc24 for further.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  5. #45
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Well, on the piston part, it's no secret that a good piston gun has several advantages over DI when you're looking at suppressing, as well as using FA. The M27 was purposed to be used FA, and suppressors are now a general issue item in the USMC rifle squad. The M27 has a significant advantage over a DI system for this use.

    As for "why a US company can't build it," that's already been addressed. It is partially US built, to begin with. Opening up the solicitation to the American community instead of being a single source rifle would have been more expensive to the American taxpayer in the longrun.

    Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.
    I see your point. The M27 has to be better than the Colt 1911's the Marines had to have.

    I'm clearly out of my lane here so I'll just give it a rest. I'll feel better tomorrow.
    Last edited by Borderland; 06-19-2019 at 11:01 PM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    I see your point. The M27 has to be better than the Colt 1911's the Marines had to have.

    I'm clearly out of my lane here so I'll just give it a rest. I'll feel better tomorrow.
    The Marines are not all retro - they were also the only service to take Beretta up on substituting the M9A1 for the M9 on the existing contract.

  7. #47
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Worth reading the whole letter from H&K. Bullet points quoted below.

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/06/27/916456/

    Heckler & Koch Respond to Concerns About Quarterly Financial Report

    • From 2014 to the end of 2018, HK’s debt was reduced from 290 million Euros to 235 million and the interest rate on that debt was reduced substantially.
    • Over the course of 2018 and thus far in 2019, HK reported positive EBITDA in every quarter.
    • Over that same period, HK’s cash position doubled.
    • Claims of “diminishing sales” and “difficulty securing new large-scale contracts” are patently false. In fact, the last six quarters for HK have shown record order-intake, including a substantial backlog of large-scale contracts.
    • HK invested a combined 8.3 million Euros toward increased capacity and efficiency in both the Obendorf, Germany and Columbus, GA facilities in 2018.

    The full financial report and other key data can be found at https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/ir/annual-accounts.html and https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/ir/key-figures.html.
    .
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  8. #48
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I don't know if they decided on an enterprise-wide solution yet. I think the last thing I read about a rifle company deployed was with KACs(?), don't quote me.
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The Marines are not all retro - they were also the only service to take Beretta up on substituting the M9A1 for the M9 on the existing contract.
    I think in recent years the Marines have been better about taking some cues from SOCOM. The fielding of Mk318 SOST ammunition was an early example. The 'uber squad' experiment with M27s and suppressors followed by the wider fielding of KAC cans are others. The short lived procurement of GEN5 Glock 19s (the M007) followed by the decision to adopt the smaller M18 also reflects some SOCOM influences about the modern role of the military sidearm. I'm not entirely a fan of the broader M27 fielding, but I think the USMC is on a good trajectory with their small arms procurement.
    Last edited by JSGlock34; 06-29-2019 at 11:49 AM.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Worth reading the whole letter from H&K. Bullet points quoted below.

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/06/27/916456/

    Heckler & Koch Respond to Concerns About Quarterly Financial Report
    I wouldn’t start celebrating. According to HKs financial statements report, inventories are up 16% plus Loans and Borrowings are up 26.5% . Yes gross revenue increased 21.4%; but HKs costs of sales also increased 48% between 2017 and 2018.

    When expenses outpace income, that’s a problem . Who cares how much income grew if you send that money out the door plus extra.
    Last edited by GardoneVT; 06-29-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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  10. #50
    In addition, growing cash reserves can be a plus or minus...

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