Edit. I made a reply that basically agreed with much of what is said here but then decided I'm not interested in attaching medical protocol info to my real name on a public forum. If a mod wants to delete this entirely that would be fine, I couldn't figure out how to do it myself.
Last edited by Tom Fineis; 06-15-2019 at 04:26 PM.
The opinions above are my own and do not represent any current or former employer.
I suspect what you're seeing here is a prime example of officers who've been selected and trained to be councilors rather than enforcers. This incident serves as an excellent example of the outcome of that philosophy. In all likelihood, these officers were hesitant to go hands on with the individual for fear of a complaint from the public or discipline from their department, or they simply aren't the kind of people willing to do such things and were hired because of it. When the public demands Officer Friendly and vilifies Officer Hardass this is the result. A lesser amount of force immediately and decisively applied could have prevented the entire incident.
We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......
As a retired paramystical I agree. We need to titrate Narcan to maintain respiration only, and while not placing drunks and doped up in jails for treatment and liability expenses, tying up EMS and ERs is a factor aggravating response times for those really needing help.
There is really no good option to this, as we need field Narcan for those true accidental overdoses involving elderly, children, or M.D. mistakes that does happen from time to time.
A "through unknown etymology unresponsiveness field exam" prior to treatment is not only good sense, but good field medicine as well. This would reduce tragedies like this from happening.
In Birmingham we used Narcan about as much as diesel for the trucks. IV only at the time and it was hammered in us to not "slam" the dose in full.
This is the way we do it too (most of us at least). We don't carry narcan and almost always arrive before fire and EMS. One officer will start bagging the patient while the other officer handcuffs and searches (needles are my main concern). Everyone carries a benchmade rescue hook and we just cut open every pocket to search them for sharps instead of using our fingers. The handcuffs come off once they are transferred to the cot and compliant. Don't like it? OD somewhere else...Originally Posted by Dagga Boy
2 friends that are firefighters/paramedics got called to an OD. They roll in and see the dude... 6’3 and built like a tank. Turns out he’s a fitness competitor (and a conservative 250# of twisted steel). They pushed the narcan SLOW. Luckily, the dude woke up without major incident. But he told me “If that fucker started swinging, we were beyond fucked”. My brother (anesthesiologist and former firefighter/paramedic) said the same thing: Hell hath no fury like a heroin addict you robbed of their high.
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Maybe that is how it works in Texas, but certainly not in the state I am from, and probably not in Wisconsin where this happened either by the way they acted(maybe someone from that area can enlighten us). At my local area we cannot arrest someone that calls in for help during an OD. They are not a suspect, they are a medical patient. If we happen to find anything laying around when we show up, or perform an officer safety searching find something the worst we can do is confiscate it and have it destroyed.
While most of us understand the danger in these calls, we still have new guys that want to use the shiny narcan kit they were issued and hurry to these calls to "help".
As for the title, I pulled that from the video.
https://www.brentbowen.com/can-you-b...rugs-in-texas/
Wisconsin protects bystanders, "aiders" who act to get another person help, criminal prosecution for possession of drugs and/or paraphernalia.Texas has no such law. If you call to report an overdose in Texas, whether for yourself or someone else, you can face charges under Texas drug laws.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/961/IV/443
If we're both using heroin, you fall out and I call 911 for you *I* can't be charged. You can be, although the prosecutor must let you take a drug treatment diversion under some circumstances.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Why would it not be protocol to check the patient for weapons before administering Narcan? For that matter why wouldn't you restrain your patient before administration? You have no idea how he's going to react.
Long version:
From my time in EMS, I learned that the medical community regards restraints as inhumane and there is an active effort to not use them when people like your or I would see it perfectly reasonable.
No idea about the department in question, but in many you can be reprimanded to include termination and in severe cases even investigation by the state to take your cert.
Thankfully at my primary job, we just had to articulate that the patient was a danger to himself/others. We worked for a hospital system, and within the same hospital system the nurses would cringe and give us dirty looks if we brought someone in with restraints......in their world, they have very little autonomy and things like restraints can only be applied by order of a physician......and administrations are usually filled with these people that end up driving the practices on the street. At one of my secondary jobs, they were shocked to learn that we restrained people and told me in no uncertain terms that I was not allowed to do that and would be fired on the spot and referred to the state for investigation.
The short version:
The every person is special fuzzy warm thoughts good-idea fairy.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
I have missed your posts. Glad To see you back.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
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