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Thread: Friend worried that her pepper spray would be/ could be used against her..

  1. #1

    Friend worried that her pepper spray would be/ could be used against her..

    And thus not wanting to carry it.

    I know we have many LEO on here, and lots who keep track of crime stats..

    Have you guys ever come across any cases like this? To me the benefit of carrying it, along with the alertness to have it ready trumps her fear. But wanted to make sure I ran it by you guys first..

  2. #2
    If she's not willing to carry it I wonder how much less willing she would be to actually use it on another human.

    If the chances are close to nil.....she's probably not going to get much benefit out of carrying it.

    My wife never would adjust the contents of her purse to carry pepper spray for any length of time. Forget carrying a gun. The only time she did that was while she was in nursing school and stayed on the roads at all times of the day. She had to retrieve it once at a gas station late at night and it sent the right message to the three cretins circling her in a van.

    I've sprayed a lot of pepper spray in my day. It was never taken from me but boy oh boy there was a LOT of contamination on me. I can't remember a time that I used it where I didn't get a taste as well.

    As far as crime stats, I've not seen anyone disarmed of their spray locally but have seen a whole lot of cases where people would spray others during drama....or using it as an offensive weapon rather than a defensive weapon. Those are always fun.

    Regards.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    So many worse ways she could be assaulted than by her own OC spray. Even open hands could be way more dangerous. If someone has overpowered her, losing control of her spray is not her biggest problem.

    The ďbad guy always winsĒ mindset is what I would try to get her to work past.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You donít really graduate from certain problems or certain thingsÖ like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

  4. #4
    As posted previously, mindset seems to be the key. I have used pepper foam in a crowded movie theater without anyone but my target being effected., but people will tell you the suspect will catch it and use it against you.

    I still carry pepper spray daily, haven't used it much since being required to carry a Taser. In fact the last time I changed MK 3 sprays the use by date was almost 10 years past.

    In the academy I distinctly remember watching the golden-orange stream launch and land in my eyeballs. Then having to fight and handcuff someone.

    When people cry about giving women knives (not too many of those complaining have regular access to women) I hand the woman a Sharpie and challenge the crier to take the Sharpie away from the woman...

    Civilian Tasers are nice. OC far cheaper, but useable. Blades are nice, too.

    pat

  5. #5
    mama tried blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    As posted previously, mindset seems to be the key. I have used pepper foam in a crowded movie theater without anyone but my target being effected., but people will tell you the suspect will catch it and use it against you.

    I still carry pepper spray daily, haven't used it much since being required to carry a Taser. In fact the last time I changed MK 3 sprays the use by date was almost 10 years past.

    In the academy I distinctly remember watching the golden-orange stream launch and land in my eyeballs. Then having to fight and handcuff someone.

    When people cry about giving women knives (not too many of those complaining have regular access to women) I hand the woman a Sharpie and challenge the crier to take the Sharpie away from the woman...

    Civilian Tasers are nice. OC far cheaper, but useable. Blades are nice, too.

    pat
    I think most women I have grown up with and around would be better served with pepper spray or stun baton than a blade.

    (Except for my wife...but she's Sicilian, so...)
    ďTactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.Ē - Sun Tzu | "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  6. #6
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    I think Sabre makes a jogger's pepper spray with a lanyard. If the lanyard is pulled loose from the pepper spray canister it won't spray. I'll have to google it...


    Found it.
    Last edited by Blades; 06-14-2019 at 10:58 PM.
    --Jason--

  7. #7
    Teaching martial arts in college there was a frequent discussion on young women using a knife. The common knowledge was that they couldn't effectively. Once you had them defend themselves a couple of times with a magic marker, they warmed up to the idea. Several were more convinced of the short fixed blade option over the folders before I was. The magic marker is still my litmus test, and after explaining Bram Frank's biomechanical cutting concepts they were even more interested.

    I have not, however, been so gonzo as that Kelly McCaan (Jim Grover) or that Cecil Burch guy when it comes to stress proofing techniques. Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

    Even though biomechanical cutting needs to be done very well to be effective, psychological stops are also possible, and cutting across muscle groups, in the right circumstances, is fantastic.

    Given cop training for the last 30 years or so there is an almost pathological fear of blades.

    Just a few pesos worth of my thought processes, and several of those young women spent pesos in Juarez while we were in college.

    pat

  8. #8
    Pepper spray? Nope... I have far less respect for that then I do OC.

    When I was younger, I played around with my motherís spray on her key chain. Sprayed myself right in the face... walked to the bathroom and washed it off, without anyone noticing (including her). Was under 11.

    We carry 10% OC, and used 0.93% for training exposure. Our class was one of the first (actually second, I believe) that switched to 5.5% exposure. Supposedly, the class before us had it bad... like Raiders of the Lost Ark face melting bad. [emoji23]

    When I was exposed, was fine (and quite a few in my class were in a similar boat). The dummy we had to fight... I beat the hell out of it. The instructor who was grading me made the comment, ďnow that you knocked the suspect out...Ē when I had to go cuff the second dummy prone.

    Now, once they added water to wash it out... it sucked. Cannot lie about that. But I view OC as useless because of how it affected me. If I use it, Iíd probably be using it against wildlife instead of people.

    Taser... now that definitely works. Iím a Type I diabetic, and the muscle contractions caused the inserted port that injects insulin (insulin pump) to break/bleed. Never saw one break until that day.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    But I view OC as useless because of how it affected me. If I use it, Iíd probably be using it against wildlife instead of people.

    Taser... now that definitely works.
    I would wait until you get out of the academy before you start making any such determinations. Iíve seen tasers fail MANY more times than Iíve seen OC fail. That being said, the worst knock-down-drag-out fight Iíve ever been in was after OC failed to work.

  10. #10
    Member Coyotesfan97's Avatar
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    I was a Chemical Agent and Taser instructor when I was on SWAT. Iíve exposed a lot of people with CS but nothing like Chuck Haggard has with OC. We are issued Sabre Red. I have a stream nozzle on it. The last guy I sprayed with it dropped like Iíd hit him on the head with a baton. Frankly it surprised me because I expected it to fail based on his behavior and it was going to be written I tried it before sending my dog. Itís probably the best example of OC working Iíve ever seen. Iíd put my failure rate with OC at 10% or less. I have the stream on my belt and I also carry a Mk9 on searches.

    I carry a Taser because I have to. Itís the new bulky one with two cartridges that you need because of the high failure rate of the Taser in the field. Iíve never used it on the street. Itís been spark tested and deployed when I qualified with it. Taser works great in the classroom. Iíd put itís failure rate about 50% on the road.

    They are both less lethal tools. If youíre using less lethal tools on drunk, drugged, crazy people youíll have failures. If I had to choose between the two Iíd take Sabre Red over a Taser any day. But thatís based on my experience and current job. Your mileage may vary.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.* Thucydides 471BC

    "Hey! Let's be careful out there." Sgt Phil Esterhaus played by Michael Conrad

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