HK LEM Question

[entropy]

I appreciate the responses. My question wasn’t posted to be contentious.

I have quite a bit of experience with the USPc/LEM, pushing 15 years. You are correct. They’re bombproof, the exception being the old style firing pin assembly that had a penchant for breakage. My first had a documented 80k+ rounds before it was replaced. It started to eat flatsprings for some unknown reason. Armorer decided it was done. The round count on the second is unknown, but substantial. Not a single issue so far. Unknown count on the POW, but it’s an AB and was purchased new. The FP and FPB have been upgraded.

Yes, I’m trying to alleviate some issues involved with tendonitis, arthritis, and, pushing six decades of body wear and tear. Getting injections of any kind is off the table. I’m trying to find a combination that is close to the heavy spring set up, yet gives me a bit of relief.

I will install the #12 and see how it goes.

I do indeed recall the thread on the P2000 from back when TLG was with us. For whatever reason, I can’t locate it. I did finish the 100+ pages on the “Field Pistol” thread last evening. That was an enjoyable few hours.

Thanks again.

Edit to add: There have been some additions since I started to type. Appreciate the chart. Funny thing is, DA revolver triggers don’t seem to bother me, although maybe the sheer round count isn’t what it is compared to the HK in a training session.

[JAH 3rd]

if you want reliability leave an HK an HK.....HK doesn't BETA test there firearms like many in the industry. Dicking around with different springs is foolish then when there's light primer strikes the majority of people want to blame the platform. German Engineers build there weapons to be combat guns, legendary reliability, and durability.

I you must, call Tommy Brooker (706) 568-1235 ext 1235 at HK CS, great guy and run the situation by him.

I have an HK USP full-size in 45 acp. I was curious if an OEM HK match hammer spring like in the Elite model would make any difference in the trigger pull. So I swapped them out. Made very little difference in the trigger pull weight. But the lighter hammer spring did make trigger creep more noticeable....really didn't know I had any creep until I put the lighter hammer spring in. So far the pistol is 100% with less than 200 rounds through it. At least I satisfied my curiosity.

[HALO51]

I have an HK USP full-size in 45 acp. I was curious if an OEM HK match hammer spring like in the Elite model would make any difference in the trigger pull. So I swapped them out. Made very little difference in the trigger pull weight. But the lighter hammer spring did make trigger creep more noticeable....really didn't know I had any creep until I put the lighter hammer spring in. So far the pistol is 100% with less than 200 rounds through it. At least I satisfied my curiosity.

Might want to try the HK Hybrid Match LEM. You can use the standard trigger or the match trigger with the adjustable screw in the rear. I'm not much for the adjustable screw so I left mine standard trigger. The Hybrid Match is a consistent 4.5# press while the standard LEM is 7-8#'s. When I went to MP5 Armorer's school in 94, my instructor a well known gentleman named Singleton former SAS member, "Don't use aftermarket springs in HK's, HK's are extremely anal about there R&D and it's time proven, vetted, combat proven, rugged & reliable. Aftermarket springs aren't proven for long haul use and not vetted properly. There's a reason HK engineers use what they use and if you count on it to save your ass in a moment of need, keep it OEM HK......He knew his shit

[JonInWA]

Yes, I concur. I sent a VP9 for it's 65,000 round inspection & installation of sights, Of course, no issues and spoke to Tommy Brooker and Ryan Waldorf, excellent, professional and same day turnaround. Amazing CS @ HK.

I have a used USP9 I purchased from a well known ammo company that they used as a "test" pistol for there manufacturing process. Well documented round count when i bought it had it at 477,000 rounds. I bought the pistol only because the record keeping on this pistol was fascinating & meticulous what they said about it the USP. Absolutely no maintenance issues except changed RSA every 25,000 rounds.

Sent it to HK when I received it, No problems. I have another 19,125 through it so it's approaching 500,000 rounds. USP's are bombproof with legendary durability, reliability with the dual recoil spring. Frame gets absolutely no battering at all. I just shake my head when I see all these people want to put in aftermarket parts in HK's. They have no idea what cyclic rates with slides and so forth that was engineered into these guns. Don't mess with them. Just shoot them

The thing on the VPs that I repetitively see is when owners detail disassemble ( which is not necessary a great idea to begin with for many...), are APPALLED by the perceived flimsiness of the firing pin channel liner and the slide cover plate and feel the necessity to replace them with heavier metal components (and if I remember correctly, there's both aluminum and steel channel liners available...).

While these aftermarket component aren't necessarily intrinsically suspect or bad per se, how much of an actual need for them is very questionable in my mind. And then there's likely the voiding of the HK warranty with their installation. Despite the perception of need, I simply haven't heard of epidemic failures of the OEM components.

My suspicion is that a lot of the aftermarket component base if from people who would be better addressing training, mindset and software issues, as opposed to throwing money at various interesting aftermarket hardware options...Particularly on HKs.

Or at least to have spent sufficient time and concerted effort on training, mindset, and/or software first to quantitatively ascertain specifically what pieces of aftermarket hardware would likely constitute actual improvements.

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Here's an excellent LEM and springing discussion we had a little bit back. It's well worth a read.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....hlight=springs

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

The DA press is a training issue, not a gun issue. Then perhaps you need another platform. It's not the gun, it's the shooter. I have tennis elbow in both elbows because of high dry fire and considerable round counts. I get cortisone shots to solve the issue every 6 months. The HK reliability is there. Try a VP9 then.

I would have to be talked into agreeing with this. I'm pretty sure @GJM has posted about past experience committing to get all Grand Mastery about the USP trigger, and inducing overuse injury due to the weight of the DA trigger. Hopefully he'll be along to confirm or deny my recollection/understanding.

[CCT125US]

I would have to be talked into agreeing with this. I'm pretty sure @GJM has posted about past experience committing to get all Grand Mastery about the USP trigger, and inducing overuse injury due to the weight of the DA trigger. Hopefully he'll be along to confirm or deny my recollection/understanding.

Not GJM, but repetive use of the DA press on the P30 is what led me to the LEM. I went through a time when I was shooting 25k per year with the v3. Combine that with dry fire and hand fatigue would creep in sooner and sooner during sessions. I got to a point where I was looking to switch. Checked out the VP9, and for reasons, decided it was not for me. Gave the LEM a try, and still happy with my decision 4 years later.

[JDB]

Not GJM, but repetive use of the DA press on the P30 is what led me to the LEM. I went through a time when I was shooting 25k per year with the v3. Combine that with dry fire and hand fatigue would creep in sooner and sooner during sessions. I got to a point where I was looking to switch. Checked out the VP9, and for reasons, decided it was not for me. Gave the LEM a try, and still happy with my decision 4 years later.

Yes, concur to both.

A 400,000 round gun is great and all, but I’d rather have a gun that may only give me a reliable 50,000 rounds that I can actually shoot to my potential without over use injury.

I like double action, and shoot them well. But it takes work to get there, and and it’s work to maintain a that skill. So being able to practice at the level I want, without injury, is really important to me.

[GJM]

Yes, high volume dry firing a stock USP FS 45 DA/SA trigger, four or five years ago, injured the first joint area of my trigger finger from the weight of the DA press. The good thing is the match hybrid LEM trigger, available on the FS USP models is arguably the best hammer trigger HK makes.

[entropy]

Yes, high volume dry firing a stock USP FS 45 DA/SA trigger, four or five years ago, injured the first joint area of my trigger finger from the weight of the DA press. The good thing is the match hybrid LEM trigger, available on the FS USP models is arguably the best hammer trigger HK makes.

You still running these as field guns?