Good gun related fact checking at CNN

[joshs]

Indeed this is true. (I've filled out my fair share of 1508s. )

I figured, I'm just a stickler for details I've also repeatedly had to address the "dangerous loophole" of intrastate online sales despite any evidence that this is a common way that guns are diverted to prohibited purchasers.

[Tamara]

I figured, I'm just a stickler for details I've also repeatedly had to address the "dangerous loophole" of intrastate online sales despite any evidence that this is a common way that guns are diverted to prohibited purchasers.

Oh, it's one of those things that is almost totally hypothetical. I've been hip-deep in the gun biz since the early Nineties and I've never actually seen it happen between non-prohibited people, even.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This is slightly off topic but came to me at lunch with the old toots. If it is the case that closing loopholes, sales dodges and all kinds of nefarious dealings along with UBCs doesn't significantly decrease violent gun crime - then the solution is obvious. As in the UK, ban, confiscate, mandate turn in of almost all firearms.

In fact, the implementation of the intermediate measures to control sales might just be designed to fail, in order to make the case for the total bans. We say, well, the crooks didn't get their guns from XY or Z. Thus, those laws should be implemented. However, the guns the crooks have did enter the world legally at some point. Thus, if they never existed - no gun crime. The criminologists who study time to crime will make the point that if a gun is sold to a private person from a private person and it shows up in a crime, the average time if 5 years.

If a gun is sold NIB to a private person with no resale, the average time to crime is 10 years. If this is correct, one would argue that just eliminating guns is the solution as compared to new regs.

Just a thing to keep in mind. This is a version of the argument, why ban 30 round mags when one can reload and commit a horror with 10 rounders.

1. So don't ban 30s - gun world
2. Antigun world - ban 10s and the guns.

BTW, this is my Red Team approach to gun world arguments. I'm frustrated with the usual cliches and rants that don't have impact outside the choir and have faults. I'm obviously all for the RKBA.

[whomever]

"However, the guns the crooks have did enter the world legally at some point. Thus, if they never existed - no gun crime."

I agree that's the theory. I don't think the last sentence will prove true, though:

https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/

It's a blog of 'craft built' guns from around the world, from very crude to looks-like-it-came-from-a-factory. Which isn't surprising - look at the shops of various small boutique manufacturers. A small gun maker looks like any other small machine shop; the days of needing a city block sized factory are long gone.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That is true and if you look at Australia and Brazil. homemade SMGs are a weapon of choice as they are the easiest to make. However, that still means the guns are taken from the previously lawabiding. Most folks I know aren't going to get a homemade SMG. The regular guns might be hidden as seems to happen but then they become useless in hunting, entertainment (Trump's view), competition or self-defense.

[OlongJohnson]

"However, the guns the crooks have did enter the world legally at some point. Thus, if they never existed - no gun crime."

I agree that's the theory. I don't think the last sentence will prove true, though:

https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/

It's a blog of 'craft built' guns from around the world, from very crude to looks-like-it-came-from-a-factory. Which isn't surprising - look at the shops of various small boutique manufacturers. A small gun maker looks like any other small machine shop; the days of needing a city block sized factory are long gone.

This is my bottom line argument. Firearms are 800-year-old technology. Anyone who reasonable capability to cut metal with a modicum of precision can make one. There are alleged to be small villages of dirt-floor huts turning them out in third-world countries. The only way to keep them out of the hands of motivated people is to end modern civilization.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Charles Blow would argue that small shop production would be lesser in numbers than the flow from normally manufactured guns to the urban centers of gun violence.

Prohibition is the model.

My view, BTW, is that these defensive arguments are not as good as proactive arguments for the 2nd Amend.

[Bart Carter]

... If it is the case that closing loopholes, sales dodges and all kinds of nefarious dealings along with UBCs doesn't significantly decrease violent gun crime - then the solution is obvious. As in the UK, ban, confiscate, mandate turn in of almost all firearms...

FWIW, twenty years ago, England was a favorite subject of anti-gun people. They don’t like to discuss England now that the crime rates exceed the worst cities in the US. According to left leaning Politifac, the violent crime rate in England and Wales 775 per 100K versus US 383 per

[blues]

FWIW, twenty years ago, England was a favorite subject of anti-gun people. They don’t like to discuss England now that the crime rates exceed the worst cities in the US. According to left leaning Politifac, the violent crime rate in England and Wales 775 per 100K versus US 383 per

Puts the term "Bloody Brits" into perspective, doesn't it?

[Tamara]

If a gun is sold NIB to a private person with no resale, the average time to crime is 10 years. If this is correct, one would argue that just eliminating guns is the solution as compared to new regs.

Just a thing to keep in mind. This is a version of the argument, why ban 30 round mags when one can reload and commit a horror with 10 rounders.

1. So don't ban 30s - gun world
2. Antigun world - ban 10s and the guns.

The correct answer to that is to laugh in their face. It's the other team's pie-in-the-sky, fairy tales and unicorns equivalent to the people on our team who think a magic court case or House Bill is going to come down the pike that repeals GCA '68 and NFA '34 in one swell foop.

Our government doesn't work that way.

1) Mr. Hypothetical Gun Grabber, you don't have the votes. Sorry. That's facts. The best you can hope for is to muscle through another incremental federal ban and brace for midterm electoral backlash.
2) Even if your fairy tale law got passed, it won't stand judicial muster in a post Heller & MacDonald world.
3) Even if the Supremes suddenly overturned their own judicial precedent, you have no idea the scale of what you're asking. We have no idea how many guns are in this country. None. Any "estimate" is probably low by a ridiculous margin. Not only do we not know how many there are, we don't know who has them, or where they are. And the home machine shops of America can make more any time they want. You think a back alley blacksmith in the Khyber can make neat stuff, Ms. Gun Grabber, imagine what he could do with a Master's in Mechanical Engineering and a CNC mill & lathe in his garage.

Both sides in this debate are stuck running Off Tackle Left on Three in the legislature while hoping to pick up an occasional twenty yards with a judicial screen pass.