Beretta M9 failures

[Alpha Sierra]

Regarding the locking block issues/intrinsic quality, you might want to query Dr. Gary Roberts, and has excellent credentials

Unless his credentials include education and experience in mechanical engineering or metallurgy, not really interested.

[Joe in PNG]

I wonder. Supposedly the Army Sigs are "throw away" guns that one can just bandsaw when worn out, but is that what would happen?

[JonInWA]

I wonder. Supposedly the Army Sigs are "throw away" guns that one can just bandsaw when worn out, but is that what would happen?

Even if that truly is the case, that would assume that the Army has the intention to determine when that point (the end of viable platform lifespan) is reached; historically, except at in face of draconian results (e.g., slides physically broken and severed), the pattern seems to be to just keep everything on hand pretty much forever (or until replaced by a successive platform, which will probably suffer the same fate).

Best, Jon

[Joe in PNG]

Even if that truly is the case, that would assume that the Army has the intention to determine when that point (the end of viable platform lifespan) is reached; historically, except at in face of draconian results (e.g., slides physically broken and severed), the pattern seems to be to just keep everything on hand pretty much forever (or until replaced by a successive platform, which will probably suffer the same fate).

Best, Jon

M-16 mags is one I hear about frequently.

[Suvorov]

Superb sarcasm aside, as a former field-grade Army officer, I REALLY wish that Glock had won the M17/M18 contract; in my opinion it's the best suited weapon for the military both because of it's intrinsic qualities, but almost equally because it can perform successfully in spite of indifferent and/or insufficient lubrication and maintenance, and with the proper parts kits most unit armorers can successfully (and quickly) perform most repairs and maintenance tasks previously reserved for higher echelon maintenance organizations, due to the simplicity of a Glock's detailed disassembly and reassembly.

But that's probably beating an already pulverized dead horse....

Best, Jon

All good points. My dead horse would have been to keep the M9 and improve shooter and maintenance training.

However neither of these solutions would have “changed the face of land warfare” the way the Sig has. [emoji23]

[ranger]

And you won’t find that in the study, and I really don’t care. You think whether a firearm was rebuilt is “irrelevant” and I think it is quite relevant to the discussion. I’m perfectly fine to agree to disagree. Have a great day.

My unit was in that study - there is no "48 Infantry Division" - that is the GAARNG 48th Infantry Brigade (Mech) - now the 48th IBCT (Light) currently in AFG. When we got off the planes in Georgia - all our weapons were turned in at the bottom of the stairs at the aircraft and were sent to depot for inspect-repair-rebuild. Our Infantry, Armor, Cav Soldiers, etc. had M4s - most of the support teams had some form of M16 - usually upgraded to M16A4 status. We left most of our M240Bs in theater as there were not enough to go around in 2006 and were hot swapped with incoming units.

I remember those surveys - great attempt but not uncommon for Soldiers to "hate" on the M9 and wax poetic if they only had a Glock or the mythical 1911. Most of the "Special" units in theater were carrying Glocks, sometimes 1911s. No surprise that M16s were unpopular as they were larger, heavier, etc. plus the gunfighters normally carried M4s.

I never saw an issue with a M9. Note the comments in report about adding accessories with duct tape, etc. then having issues - a M9 variant with a light/laser option would have been nice at the time.

[ranger]

PS - I have seen several examples where the same weapons get pulled from the arms room and get many, many rounds through them with no maintenance while the rest of the weapons stay in the arms room "clean". Looking at you Ft Benning...…...

[David C.]

It's not as simple as simple contact with chlorides. There's a lot left out of Wikipedia but if you want to hang your hat on it, you win.

You wrote that SCC only occurs at high temperature. Do you want to hang your hat on that in the case of aluminum alloys?

[JSGlock34]

I remember those surveys - great attempt but not uncommon for Soldiers to "hate" on the M9 and wax poetic if they only had a Glock or the mythical 1911. Most of the "Special" units in theater were carrying Glocks, sometimes 1911s. No surprise that M16s were unpopular as they were larger, heavier, etc. plus the gunfighters normally carried M4s.

Well, the title of the study is Soldier Perspectives on Small Arms in Combat and no doubt the perceptions you list played into the low confidence ratings scored by the M9. I certainly take some of the comments with a grain of salt, and perceptions can be very subjective.

Still, I see no reason to dismiss the following conclusions (which are not limited to the M9).

Soldiers issued a rebuilt weapon were more likely to report a repair while in theater.

Weapons that were rebuilt were also reportedly repaired more often than non-rebuilt weapons, and those with rebuilt weapons were less likely to be confident in the durability of the weapon.

[ranger]

I am not clear on the definition of "rebuilt" weapon. As I stated, all of our small arms were surrendered literally as we deplaned in Georgia - sent to depot level maintenance for inspection-repair-rebuild. That seemed to be the norm and I assume this was to insure the weapons were to "spec" for future use. My point is that all the small arms seem to be "rebuilt" unless you get the first issue - for example, units now getting the M17s.