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Thread: Ed Harris--Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter

  1. #1

    Ed Harris--Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter

    I guess this could go under ammo, reloading or revolvers. Mods, please move if inappropriate here.

    https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011...rge-wadcutter/

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Thanks for posting that. I'd read it around the time it was originally written and since forgotten. It also reminds me of an article in some digest or other regarding the usage of a 3" J-frame .38 as a kit gun. I'll poke through my books and see if I can find it.

    Edit: Found the article. A one-page filler that deserved a longer form write-up.

    Name:  S&W Trail Masterpiece.jpg
Views: 2093
Size:  44.9 KB

    Also found an article mentioning the Trail Masterpiece which is also worth a read:
    https://snubnose.info/docs/swjframes.htm
    Last edited by SCCY Marshal; 05-01-2021 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #3
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    With regard to "full charge", can someone help me understand what that is?

    I am not a reloader, or much of a revolver guy. I do however practice and shoot with WC ammo, mainly Federal Gold Medal Match 148 gr WC. I picked this on the advice here on p-f as well as Chris Baker great video on WC ammo for self defense.

    https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...8a-p-1187.aspx

    Is this a "full charge" WC?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    With regard to "full charge", can someone help me understand what that is?
    According to the article linked by Tokarev, it's a 146gr wadcutter at 850-870fps from a 4". Usually target wadcutters are in the 700fps range.
    Adam

  5. #5
    Member olstyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    With regard to "full charge", can someone help me understand what that is?
    I am a reloader, and I'm not 100% on what they mean by "full charge" either. Looking at the bullet weights and velocities quoted in the article, they're only slightly above "minor" power factor as defined by USPSA and IDPA, so I'm not sure it has any particularly special meaning. Do you know what velocity your ammo makes when fired from the revolver you're shooting it in? That would be the only truly meaningful way to compare.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    With regard to "full charge", can someone help me understand what that is?

    I am not a reloader, or much of a revolver guy. I do however practice and shoot with WC ammo, mainly Federal Gold Medal Match 148 gr WC. I picked this on the advice here on p-f as well as Chris Baker great video on WC ammo for self defense.

    https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...8a-p-1187.aspx

    Is this a "full charge" WC?
    From reading the article it looks like he’s advocating a wadcutter with more powder behind it. He talked about getting a velocity between a standard wadcutter and the 158 grn FBI load. I think he was looking at a cost/availablity issue as well. He’s talking about casting the bullets and handloading vs a case of the 135gr gold dots.

    Jason

  7. #7
    Member Scal's Avatar
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    I would say that it’s probably a good idea to ditch the hbwc bullets if you’re going to get sporty with powder charges. Button nosed or double ended wadcutters are able to be loaded hot without worrying about leaving the wadcutter skirt in the bore like hollow base designs. I have heard that you need to start worrying about that at 900fps, but this is just me repeating warnings I have read. I am sure that this can all vary with alloy hardness and all sorts of other tiddly little factors.

    I have some of these Federal loads, but I never pulled the bullets to see exactly what projectiles are used.

  8. #8
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    Thanks for posting that. I'd read it around the time it was originally written and since forgotten. It also reminds me of an article in some digest or other regarding the usage of a 3" J-frame .38 as a kit gun. I'll poke through my books and see if I can find it.

    Edit: Found the article. A one-page filler that deserved a longer form write-up.

    Name:  S&W Trail Masterpiece.jpg
Views: 2093
Size:  44.9 KB

    Also found an article mentioning the Trail Masterpiece which is also worth a read:
    https://snubnose.info/docs/swjframes.htm
    http://www.darkcanyon.net/What's%20The%20Best%20Trail%20Gun%20For%20You.htm

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
    With regard to "full charge", can someone help me understand what that is?

    I am not a reloader, or much of a revolver guy. I do however practice and shoot with WC ammo, mainly Federal Gold Medal Match 148 gr WC. I picked this on the advice here on p-f as well as Chris Baker great video on WC ammo for self defense.

    https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fede...8a-p-1187.aspx

    Is this a "full charge" WC?
    Federal Gold Medal Match is a "midrange" wadcutter as called for in the Smith & Wesson model 52. "Full charge" is just shorthand for a wadcutter at service velocity. The old 158 grain LRN duty loads clocking around 800-850 from a four-inch tube. They can be loaded hotter but the quoted loads ride the line between standard pressure and +P to reduce wear and tear in older guns.

    The admonition to run solid, usually double-ended wadcutters is sound for several reasons. Skirted bullets often don't like being driven hard and accuracy can sometimes fall apart before safety even becomes an issues. The bullet's weight is a solid mass to aid penetration. And the bullets can be cast harder where hollow bases have to be left very soft to obturate as intended. As an example, a solid and firm wadcutter may be more likely to do its job in a dangerous dog's skull where a soft skirted bullet may just flatten, particularly if they hit the thicker ridge along the top of the skull.

    The difference between a "full charge" and target wadcutter may seem pedantic on paper but they have decidedly different internal, external, and terminal ballistics in practice. Edit: Anyone wanting to really go down the hunting/fighting wadcutter rabbit hole should read Cirillo's book - Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights. Beautiful man went so far as to crenelate meplats, have cast plastic caps made to allow feeding in autoloaders, and more.

    A buddy went out looking for a 3" LCR in .38 or .327 (he didn't know Ruger wasn't making them at the time) almost immediately after I showed him that article. He found a 22 Mag. first though and now has two.
    Last edited by SCCY Marshal; 05-01-2021 at 02:07 PM.

  10. #10
    Chasing the Horizon RJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olstyn View Post
    Do you know what velocity your ammo makes when fired from the revolver you're shooting it in? That would be the only truly meaningful way to compare.
    IIRC, Chris Baker was getting 659 FPS out of a 2” barrel for GMM in his testing. This is a screen grab from that:

    Name:  075CD281-FF19-43B1-ABB9-0EC704144DED.jpg
Views: 1993
Size:  66.0 KB

    I mean, I get it isn’t ‘full load’, but it’s not like I can meander over to sg ammo and peruse their huge assortment of in-stock WC selections these days, unfortunately.

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