No-gi vs gi for self-defense

[LittleLebowski]

Except it is not a debate when a single person is trying to argue but cannot answer any of the points that contradict his position, which is typical of the "street fighters".

It's the eternal cop-out.

"That wouldn't work on the street."
"OK, show me."
"I can't, I'd kill you."
"OK, tell me about your fighting record."
"I can't, it was all on THE STREETS."
"Which streets?"
"I can't tell you."
"OK, so how do you measure performance?"
"By biting and gouging on the THE STREETS."
"Which streets?"
"I can't tell you."

And so on...

[Mitch]

It demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how to work in a position or even fight.

If someone is in dominate position and your response is eye gouge/groin grab/whatever other “dirty trick” then congratulations, you just handed someone in a superior position one of your limbs, and oh by the way, now they’re pissed. You didn’t protect your head or neck or arms, you didn’t create a frame or space to adjust to a better position, and now to borrow a phrase from a friend of mine, you’re proper fucked.


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[runcible]

Here is a little secret that I probably should not disseminate on line though we have taught it for years. A round combination lock with the one finger looped through the hasp makes a devastating one finger brass knuckle. It is more effective than the traditional variety as all the force is concentrated on one striking surface rather than spread out over four. The best thing is locks are legal practically everywhere and nobody will think of it as a weapon. The trick is to find one that fits your hand and practice hitting the heavy bag with it until it feels natural otherwise you could injure your hand. and PLEASE, if Heaven forbid you do have to hit someone with it, stay off the cranium if at all possible because this can cause a serious skull fracture and might kill the person.

A padlock carried outside of traditional contexts will most definitely attract additional attention, both CONUS and OCONUS. Screwdrivers and newspapers are fairly legal as well; but out of traditional contexts and\or in other specific contexts they will attract additional scrutiny.

I look at this from a little different angle.

If I am forced to defend myself from a violent assault my objective is not to grab the bad guy and wrestle. It is to end his hostile actions as soon as possible and get away. This is best accomplished by attacking his eyes, throat or balls or by applying a healthy dose of blunt force trauma. Tansu is about using elbows, knees, head buts, finger breaking and a host of assorted nasties that are banned from the UFC and virtually all other forms of sport fighting, and for a very good reason. Nobody wants to get blinded or have their nose bitten off for sport.

Now, with that being said, should you learn to wrestle? Of course! You never know when you might get put on the deck but it should not be your main objective. Only wrestle long enough to hurt the bad guy. This is because most real fights involve other people and the last thing you want in a violent assault is to have both hands full of "bad guy A" trying to hold him down with your head at perfect punt level when you could have kicked him in the groin or jammed a thumb two knuckles deep in his eyes and ended it immediately.

how do you practice biting and eye gouging in an alive manner?

As far as biting, use a firm apple and bite it at a 45 degree angle using the deeply rooted canine teeth. The front teeth are more likely to get pulled loose if you or the opponent yanks away suddenly. Most of the damage is not done from the bite but from violent back and forth movement of the head just like dogs do when they bite. The big difference is that a human can only generate about fifty pounds of pressure so bites should be limited to fingers and soft targets like the ears, nose and soft fleshy parts of the face.

Eye gouging can be practiced on yourself if you are careful. You simply trap the head with one hand and place the tip of the thumb in either the inner or outer corner of the eye. With a bit of practice the eyes become very easy to find by touch alone. Of course if you are really being held down and assaulted you would forcefully burrow the thumb deep behind the eyeball using lots of vibrato.

Finger jabs to the eyes are usually practiced on a Styrofoam wig head but I will withhold the details of exactly how it is done because this is a public forum where some kid might read this and try it at school.

I don't want this to sound too caviler as these are serious techniques to be done in only the gravest circumstances.

My personal experience with things that legitimately shouldn't be spoken of outside of school, is that they aren't spoken of. Talking about how you shouldn't be talking about something seems gauche and foppish.

I'm surprised that you describe it as initially difficult to locate your own eyes during self-practice of the eye-gouge, but am happy for your improvement in the skill.

It just doesn't seem a good trade to occupy one or both hands (as you describe above, re: gouging) with dirty pool of questionable efficacy, while your opponent's hands roam free.

How many apples must be consumed and to what standard, in order to demonstrate sufficient proficiency with these close cannibal concepts?

It seems that if ball-kicks, eye-gouges, and cannibalism were the high-percentage of success options as presented, they'd be in service with the criminal element already. More so, as presented, it seems as if you yourself would be defenseless against them if your opponent used them against you first.

I want people to understand that I am not taking about an either/or position on "foul tactics" over grappling. I advocate both if you find yourself being man handled in a real criminal assault. A solid base is absolutely critical if you get put on the ground. Achieving and maintaining a dominant controlling position is equally vital. The "finish" is where we may part ways. Sure if he extends an arm, bar it. Or you find him wide open for a collar choke by all means take it. But the other side of the coin is that if he is open for a head butt or the point of your chin grinding into the eye socket, take that also. There are at least a dozen ways to bust a guard that would be an instant disqualification in the Octagon so almost nobody thinks about or trains these things anymore.

Real fighting is like the old children's game of rocks, paper and scissors. A solid fight ending punch requires forward and rotational momentum. This can be nullified by a good grappler who can tie you up and take away all of your power. The grappler in turn can be thwarted by a twisting groin grab or having a plug bitten out of his face. A biter and gouger can be kept at bay by a good puncher who knows how to maintain distance. It is not that any one of the six categories of attack are superior. Just like the rocks, paper and scissors they can all beat or be beaten by others.

The problem that I see with many of the current trained fighters is they are so focused on what the MMA guys do in the ring (because of its immense popularity) that they become oblivious to other possibilities that are outside their discipline.

If these dozen "ways to bust a guard" haven't been thought of before, then how are they already banned? Could you list these unforgivable guard breaks, please?

The MMA world has given immensely to the combatives realm, and has swept a tremendous amount of incestuous martial garbage off of the table. While there are specific adaptations and advantages to material outside of the ring, you're not describing any of those that I'm aware of. Rather, it sounds like you're talking down to them because of their skill and training, which seems anti-intellectual and unhelpful.

With no ire, I read your comments as being those of someone whom has thought deeply on different subjects, perhaps even more deeply than most; but you have neither presented it to a skeptical audience nor to "the other side." This is something that all curricula developers need to keep themselves honest, and it is tremendously rewarding for the risk given in trade.

[LittleLebowski]

A padlock carried outside of traditional contexts will most definitely attract additional attention, both CONUS and OCONUS. Screwdrivers and newspapers are fairly legal as well; but out of traditional contexts and\or in other specific contexts they will attract additional scrutiny.





My personal experience with things that legitimately shouldn't be spoken of outside of school, is that they aren't spoken of. Talking about how you shouldn't be talking about something seems gauche and foppish.

I'm surprised that you describe it as initially difficult to locate your own eyes during self-practice of the eye-gouge, but am happy for your improvement in the skill.

It just doesn't seem a good trade to occupy one or both hands (as you describe above, re: gouging) with dirty pool of questionable efficacy, while your opponent's hands roam free.

How many apples must be consumed and to what standard, in order to demonstrate sufficient proficiency with these close cannibal concepts?

It seems that if ball-kicks, eye-gouges, and cannibalism were the high-percentage of success options as presented, they'd be in service with the criminal element already. More so, as presented, it seems as if you yourself would be defenseless against them if your opponent used them against you first.



If these dozen "ways to bust a guard" haven't been thought of before, then how are they already banned? Could you list these unforgivable guard breaks, please?

The MMA world has given immensely to the combatives realm, and has swept a tremendous amount of incestuous martial garbage off of the table. While there are specific adaptations and advantages to material outside of the ring, you're not describing any of those that I'm aware of. Rather, it sounds like you're talking down to them because of their skill and training, which seems anti-intellectual and unhelpful.

With no ire, I read your comments as being those of someone whom has thought deeply on different subjects, perhaps even more deeply than most; but you have neither presented it to a skeptical audience nor to "the other side." This is something that all curricula developers need to keep themselves honest, and it is tremendously rewarding for the risk given in trade.

Excellent post, thank you for contributing.

[SouthNarc]

Excellent post, thank you for contributing.

Runcible is old school and knows that of which he speaks. He’s also willing to do the heavy lifting for old guys who don’t give a fuck and wouldn’t be as nice. It’s important to be nice.

[LittleLebowski]

Runcible is old school and knows that of which he speaks. He’s also willing to do the heavy lifting for old guys who don’t give a fuck and wouldn’t be as nice. It’s important to be nice.

You don’t have to be nice

[JJN]

I have come up with an axiom. The kind of people who plan on biting as a strategy aren't usually the kind of people with enough surplus gas to devote their mouth to biting rather than breathing.

[Cecil Burch]

I have come up with an axiom. The kind of people who plan on biting as a strategy aren't usually the kind of people with enough surplus gas to devote their mouth to biting rather than breathing.

so damned true.

They are the same people who would screech at myself and Craig and Paul that "if we tried that wrasslin' stuff on them, I will just shoot you" but never had the physical conditioning to be in a fight and never had the physical skill to keep us from doing what we wanted.

And most importantly, they are NEVER the ones who are willing to test their theories out when they have the opportunity.

[txdpd]

I haven’t seen it all, but IME the type that is most likely to persist in physical fight or commit a spontaneous assault is going to be high on crack, meth, pcp, k2, etc. Drunks usually run their mouths and work their way up to fighting, there’s usually a window of opportunity theirs to break things off.

A lot of them end up shirtless or naked. Whether they get hot and strip down or their clothes get ripped off in a fight, it turns into wrestling a greased pig.

One thing about people that put crack, meth, pcp, etc in their bodies is that they don’t care about what they put in their bodies. Whether it’s unprotected sex with prostitutes or as prostitutes, sex with other drug addicts or sharing needles, they don’t care. There are immediate needs for survival and long term consequences, if you can avoid exposure to the bodily fluids of the people that’ll attack you on the streets, it’s a good idea. You got bite one of them, do it. Be mindful that you’re getting blood in your mouth and likely in you nose and eyes, that’s not good.

[TheNewbie]

I haven’t seen it all, but IME the type that is most likely to persist in physical fight or commit a spontaneous assault is going to be high on crack, meth, pcp, k2, etc. Drunks usually run their mouths and work their way up to fighting, there’s usually a window of opportunity theirs to break things off.

A lot of them end up shirtless or naked. Whether they get hot and strip down or their clothes get ripped off in a fight, it turns into wrestling a greased pig.

One thing about people that put crack, meth, pcp, etc in their bodies is that they don’t care about what they put in their bodies. Whether it’s unprotected sex with prostitutes or as prostitutes, sex with other drug addicts or sharing needles, they don’t care. There are immediate needs for survival and long term consequences, if you can avoid exposure to the bodily fluids of the people that’ll attack you on the streets, it’s a good idea. You got bite one of them, do it. Be mindful that you’re getting blood in your mouth and likely in you nose and eyes, that’s not good.

Wise statement. Getting a blood test done to make sure you don't have the nasty is not fun.


Between hiv, hep c, staph, herpes gladiatorum, etc, there are multiple reasons to avoid as much physical contact as is possible.



I ran out of gas during an in class fight once. My opponent and I were evenly matched until I ran out of gas. We stopped after I told him I was going to puke if we didn't.