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Thread: No-gi vs gi for self-defense

  1. #21
    I cannot begin to count the number of times a "street fighter" who was insistent on using foul tactics as the answer to grappling failed miserably at doing it when rolling with a good grappler. Like the new cool ammo that was designed by a computer (like Rip) and is supposed to be so awesome but fails in the real world.

    I say this from quite literally multiple decades of experience. This July will mark 40 years of active and continuous training to fight another human being. And more so, I am not talking about it from someone who has only done BJJ. I went through a long period where I was one of the main instructors under someone who was probably the most visible proponent of eye gouges, biting, groin strikes, etc. (in fact, I was one of his first 7 full instructors he ever certified). He even did a number of video instructionals that taught that concept, including how to train it. I put in decades - with zero exaggeration - of working this material, including in what we stupidly referred to "field testing", and the fact is that it does not work one bit when the other guy knows how to control the entanglement.

    Disengaging and not getting entangled sounds great, but falls down in application because the other guy has a say in the matter.

    I also find it hilarious, as one of the posters stated above, that the non-grapplers always think they are the only ones who know how to do that stuff. When you have dominant positional control, you get to do whatever you want, and it works.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    ".

    I'm broken, so I usually limit no-gi to once a week and at open roll as necessary for whomever is prepping for a no-gi comp.

    That is probably a good plan for someone who is older, has pre-existing physical issues, and is not looking to do a ton on competitions.

    Something like 2 days a week of gi, one day of no-gi, and maybe part of those days involve a few rounds of striking in play. If you only go two days a week, probably something like every other week, do one day of no-gi.
    Last edited by Cecil Burch; 06-04-2019 at 11:46 AM.
    For info about training or to contact me:
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  3. #23
    RE: gis and shirts, I've seen collar chokes adapted to work with t-shirts in really nasty ways. You have to do more work to bunch the shirt up, but the payoff is better because it's thinner than a gi collar. It's like being strangled with an extension cord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    I also find it hilarious, as one of the posters stated above, that the non-grapplers always think they are the only ones who know how to do that stuff. When you have dominant positional control, you get to do whatever you want, and it works.
    and note that when I asked how to train biting, eye gouging, etc in an "alive" manner he either didn't know what I meant or just ignored it.

    @Tactical Black Belt, I meant this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU

  4. #24
    I want people to understand that I am not taking about an either/or position on "foul tactics" over grappling. I advocate both if you find yourself being man handled in a real criminal assault. A solid base is absolutely critical if you get put on the ground. Achieving and maintaining a dominant controlling position is equally vital. The "finish" is where we may part ways. Sure if he extends an arm, bar it. Or you find him wide open for a collar choke by all means take it. But the other side of the coin is that if he is open for a head butt or the point of your chin grinding into the eye socket, take that also. There are at least a dozen ways to bust a guard that would be an instant disqualification in the Octagon so almost nobody thinks about or trains these things anymore.

    Real fighting is like the old children's game of rocks, paper and scissors. A solid fight ending punch requires forward and rotational momentum. This can be nullified by a good grappler who can tie you up and take away all of your power. The grappler in turn can be thwarted by a twisting groin grab or having a plug bitten out of his face. A biter and gouger can be kept at bay by a good puncher who knows how to maintain distance. It is not that any one of the six categories of attack are superior. Just like the rocks, paper and scissors they can all beat or be beaten by others.

    The problem that I see with many of the current trained fighters is they are so focused on what the MMA guys do in the ring (because of its immense popularity) that they become oblivious to other possibilities that are outside their discipline.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical Black Belt View Post
    But the other side of the coin is that if he is open for a head butt or the point of your chin grinding into the eye socket, take that also. There are at least a dozen ways to bust a guard that would be an instant disqualification in the Octagon so almost nobody thinks about or trains these things anymore.
    If you are inside the guard, how will you get leverage for a head butt if your waist and hips are being controlled?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pooty View Post
    If you are inside the guard, how will you get leverage for a head butt if your waist and hips are being controlled?
    That’s not even the issue if you try a head-butt from inside the guard. If you get that high up, where you can head-butt someone in the face, you will be swept immediately.

    Elbows and knees are much more effective in nearly every circumstance.

    For example, in MMA my hands are taped and wrapped to protect the small bones from breaking. In a “street fight” I am kicking the side of the legs from distance or I am grappling/kneeing/elbowing from the clinch. The only chance a random, untrained guy has is a haymaker knockout... so, don’t stand in that range.
    Last edited by GAP; 06-05-2019 at 08:22 AM.

  7. #27
    Great post. Timely for me as my gym recently changed one of my 4 regular weekly classes to no gi.

    I love the new forum, and as a long time PF guy it seems entirely appropriate that the very first thread nearly instantly became a “sport will get you killed in da streetz” debate.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by EPF View Post
    Great post. Timely for me as my gym recently changed one of my 4 regular weekly classes to no gi.

    I love the new forum, and as a long time PF guy it seems entirely appropriate that the very first thread nearly instantly became a “sport will get you killed in da streetz” debate.
    I have confidence in my moderators to handle it
    #RESIST

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by EPF View Post
    Great post. Timely for me as my gym recently changed one of my 4 regular weekly classes to no gi.

    I love the new forum, and as a long time PF guy it seems entirely appropriate that the very first thread nearly instantly became a “sport will get you killed in da streetz” debate.

    Except it is not a debate when a single person is trying to argue but cannot answer any of the points that contradict his position, which is typical of the "street fighters".
    For info about training or to contact me:
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  10. #30
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPF View Post
    Great post. Timely for me as my gym recently changed one of my 4 regular weekly classes to no gi.

    I love the new forum, and as a long time PF guy it seems entirely appropriate that the very first thread nearly instantly became a “sport will get you killed in da streetz” debate.
    Then this forum is doing it right!

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