At whatever point the individual in the situation feels it's the right time. That's why the scripted protocol is a joke. Every situation is different.Originally Posted by sharps54
If dispatchers want to remind the person on the other end to be sure to not display weapons when the cops show up, fine. Ordering someone to disarm, nope.
Do cops announce their presence when making entry, knowing there's an armed defender inside? If not, why not?
Understood, thanks for the clarification. I’ll let a sworn officer answer your last question.
I'm late to this discussion. Interesting to listen to the audio of the encounter. The homeowner was obviously terrified, but still defended himself. Good job homeowner.
My own home invasion story happened around 1am when the invader set off our silent alarm. My very pregnant wife and I were in bed, and I could hear him rummaging around in the living room. I yelled something like "GTFO, I'm armed", and the guy fled with no shots fired, taking my wife's purse with him. Cops showed up maybe 20 min later.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
From a mindset and tactics perspective I think announcing that you are present and armed and will defend yourself is generally the right choice. (Of course, circumstances could vary on that-- if you're being specifically targeted, maybe not).
Announcing may have prevented the guy from coming into the bedroom. Also, having a plan to how you will secure your gun, i.e. a holster that you can put on, before leaving the house, seems like it would have been a good step.
It also sounds like there was confusion as to what door he was exiting from. It sounded like the cops wanted him to come out from the east door, and he went out another (he obviously was understandably stressed out). Although it sounds obvious, not a bad idea to know in advance which direction your doors are facing (particularly for spouses, older kids). If he went out the door the cops didn't expect him to come out of, with a gun in his hand ...
Edited to add: Also, I believe he probably could have taken an opportunity to stop and tell the dispatcher what he was wearing, before he came out.
Last edited by idahojess; 06-01-2019 at 11:21 AM.
The caller did fine, he was having the worst day of his life. It was the dispatcher’s job to get his description and that is one of the few things I can find fault with listening to the call. Mind you it is easy to Monday morning quarterback a call like this so I don’t want to sound too judgmental.
Last edited by sharps54; 06-01-2019 at 11:37 AM.
That is 100% wired into my brain too. Mas advocates something along the lines "stop, don't make me shoot" as part of the verbal arsenal as well. Circumstances permitting, giving the intruder one last chance to leave with such a command is undoubtedly a wise thing to do, especially with an open line to 911.
Even though he was armed, this fellow did not seem very confident in his ability to defend himself. Good choice staying in the bedroom behind a locked door but I would much rather remain in a larger space (bedroom, not closet) to have some maneuvering room should the other uninvited guest decided to confront him.
I was once at a training class that featured a mock home invasion in a shoot house and yelled "GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! DO IT NOW!" so loud I made the RO jump. I wonder if some verbal commands might have led to a better outcome for everybody, but breaking into someone's house at 0200 is big boy game, big boy rules.
I can nitpick all sorts of stuff, and always can, but I think the dispatcher made it work.
Twelve minutes is a long time. When my wife walked out and found the guy standing in the garage, our response time was more than double that.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
I'm curious about this too. What are the chances of damaging hearing to the point of being unable to communicate usefully over the phone or with LEOs?
I'm just a layman with no medical knowledge. But I'm going to guess no.
We've had soldiers doing CQB in and around buildings since WW2 with no hearing protection until fairly recently. I think we would have known by now if people routinely lost their entire ability to hear due to gunfire inside rooms.
It depends on what you're shooting. A Def-Tec 25 distraction device is about 175db. An unsuppressed 5.56mm is probably the same or close. Without ear pro both will leave your ears ringing. Even if you can communicate you're doing permanent damage at those decibels. Pistol rounds aren't nearly as bad.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
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