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Thread: Muzzle direction during reloads

  1. #1
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Muzzle direction during reloads

    Excellent commentary on the subject from Rich Grassi in the Tac Wire, and Karl Rehn on his blog.

    http://blog.krtraining.com/muzzle-di...ring-a-reload/

    https://www.thetacticalwire.com/feat...b-85090694923e
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  2. #2
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Shooters - instructors and students alike - often find themselves incapacitated when a seeming conflict of The Four Rules occurs.

    Some deal with this by modifying what they do to meet with the best literal interpretation of The Four Rules.

    Others deal with this by modifying their interpretation of The Four Rules.

    I think all would be better served by supplanting the idea of "safety" with the idea of "risk". Not just the idea of risk, but the understanding of what risk is. Generally the formula is:


    probability of a bad thing happening x consequences of the bad thing


    Note that risk has components of both odds and stakes.

    It's a daunting task that we constantly train ourselves to not point guns at anyone. Yet, the whole idea is to point your gun at someone at the critical moment. What can be "dangerous" for us or for no-shoots can be "safe" for a threat... and vice versa.

    It's good that instructors and students give this some thought.
    Last edited by Jay Cunningham; 05-28-2019 at 11:32 AM.

  3. #3
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Shooters - instructors and students alike - often find themselves incapacitated when a seeming conflict of The Four Rules occurs.

    Some deal with this by modifying what they do to meet with the best literal interpretation of The Four Rules.

    Others deal with this by modifying their interpretation of The Four Rules.

    I think all would be better served by supplanting the idea of "safety" with the idea of "risk". Not just the idea of risk, but the understanding of what risk is. Generally the formula is:


    probability of a bad thing happening x consequences of the bad thing


    Note that risk has components of both odds and stakes.

    It's a daunting task that we constantly train ourselves to not point guns at anyone. Yet, the whole idea is to point your gun at someone at the critical moment. What can be "dangerous" for us or for no-shoots can be "safe" for a threat... and vice versa.

    It's good that instructors and students give this some thought.
    +1

    Hackathorn said many times in my class, "Is this dangerous? Yes. Is this unsafe? No. Not if you do it correctly."
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  4. #4
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    When a big fire occurs in the real world, we call the fire department. When a small one occurs we use a fire extinguisher. So why do we teach/learn things like stop/drop and roll? It is for catastrophic failure when your life cannot be saved by the fire department or a fire extinguisher at that precise moment.

    I view practicing reloads as the same thing. Catastrophic failure when the police aren’t available and I can’t solve it with the (empty/stopped) firearm I have at the moment.

    Reloads should also be viewed as a portion of solving a gun stoppage, not just as adding fuel.

  5. #5
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Runkle View Post
    Reloads should also be viewed as a portion of solving a gun stoppage, not just as adding fuel.
    Another Hackathorn-ism. He put the question to the class:

    "What is the most likely cause of a stoppage in your quality pistol?"

    "You ran out of ammo."
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  6. #6
    Very Pro Dentist Chuck Haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Another Hackathorn-ism. He put the question to the class:

    "What is the most likely cause of a stoppage in your quality pistol?"

    "You ran out of ammo."
    I would respectfully disagree with him.

    In my observation the need to fix a malf on a semi auto pistol in the real world, especially in the days of double stack 9s, is far more likely than the need for a reload.
    I am the owner of Agile/Training and Consulting
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  7. #7
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    I would respectfully disagree with him.

    In my observation the need to fix a malf on a semi auto pistol in the real world, especially in the days of double stack 9s, is far more likely than the need for a reload.

    +1. His context was during a lecture period of also saying "How many rounds will you fire in a gunfight (two way vs a one way "shooting") if it isn't over in the first couple shot? As many as you have in the gun." Based on his review of an FBI database he had access to back in the day.
    Last edited by JHC; 05-31-2019 at 10:06 AM.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #8
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    hmmm... food for thought.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    +1. His context was during a lecture period of also saying "How many rounds will you fire in a gunfight (two way vs a one way "shooting") if it isn't over in the first couple shot? As many as you have in the gun." Based on his review of an FBI database he had access to back in the day.
    Clint Smith has something on this too, how police shots per engagement went from ~6 with revolvers to ~18 with autoloaders

    Edit - found it

    Last edited by STI; 05-31-2019 at 02:04 PM.

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