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Thread: Bottom-Feeding .32 Popguns

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    Bottom-Feeding .32 Popguns

    Reading the previous thread on the .32 ACP as a field pistol, I thought I would fresh out the topic by sharing another previously published article of mine:

    Pocket Pistol Wisdom from Down on "The Farm"


    My mentor, the late Harry J. Archer was a career clandestine services officer who served from the post-WWII cold war period through the Vietnam era. Harry was the real-life equivalent of Jack Bauer or Jason Bourne, surviving multiple Cold War era covert missions in denied areas, including MACV service in Vietnam, later in life becoming a highly respected case officer and trainer down at The Farm, at Camp Peary, Toano, VA, (off I64 near Williamsburg) finally retiring and living long enough to die peacefully at home in bed in New Market, VA.

    Harry taught that the purpose of a concealed handgun was to neutralize immediate threats from contact distance to about twenty feet to facilitate escape. When deployed without official cover, he carried whatever handgun was common among criminal elements in the country where the mission took him. This often meant a .32 ACP or 7.65mm Browning, because a M1911, Colt or S&W revolver would make it obvious that he wasn't "a local."

    While a .32 ACP is not your first choice for defense, the first rule of gun fighting is to HAVE A GUN. In the worst-case scenario any gun is better than no gun at all. The .32 is a great "get off me" gun. Many countries restrict foreign nationals working corporate security for non-government clients from carrying anything larger than a .22 LR or .32 ACP, so you must "dance with the girl you brought."

    A .32 autopistol is easy to control to produce rapid, accurate double or triple taps, compared to a .380 or 9mm of similar size, which carries one less round. The former Italian municipal police .32 ACP Beretta 81 double-stack magazine pistols now being imported have a heavy slide and heavy-duty recoil spring, like the Model 84 .380 pistol they are based upon. This mitigates the frame pounding effect of Euro loads assembled with 73-77 grain bullets loaded 50 fps faster than US 71-grain FMJs. In .32 ACP caliber the Beretta 81 with 3.8” barrel produces 950 fps with the 90-grain .309" diameter Hornady XTP bullet with 3 grains of AutoComp, which is a +P load! Its 12+1 magazine capacity in .32 is also a big "plus."

    In the late 1960s-70s Harry's .32 carry load used the Winchester 100-grain .32-20 lead flat-nosed Lubaloy bullet assembled in "sterile" unheadstamped (WWII WRA) primed cases charges with 3 grains of Hercules Infallible powder. This had a burning rate between modern Unique and Herco. Cartridge OAL was 0.95-097" OAL, giving 870 +/- 30 fps from a Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless Type III with 3-3/4” barrel. This closely approximated the energy of .32-20 factory loads fired from a revolver of the same barrel length, but from a concealable pocket pistol, so for the period it was considered a powerful and effective load. Accurate 31-095T with 2 grs. of TiteGroup does the same with near full-caliber "crush," and 30 inches of water-jug penetration, a full-charge load not to be exceeded!

    In chronograph testing of modern production 71-grain US .32 ACP hardball typically seldom exceeds 850 fps from a pistol with barrel shorter than 3-1/2 inches, whereas the WW2 era 73-74 grain hardball then produced by WRA, Peters or Remington-UMC produced velocities little different in velocity than European ammo of the period, about 100 fps faster with a heavier 73-77-grain FMJ bullet.

    Current production Speer Gold Dot and Hornady XTP JHPs break 900 fps, but seldom expand much from barrels shorter than 3-1/2.” European CIP 73-77 grain hardball such as Fiocchi, RWS, Geco, Norma, Sako, Hirtenberg or Sellier & Bellot produce about 900 f.p.s. from short-barrel pistols such as the Beretta Tomcat, and 950+ f.p.s. from the CZ27, CZ50, Walther PP, SIG P230, or Beretta M1935, M70 and M81.

    European police felt the .32 ACP entirely adequate until the 1972 Munich Olympics terrorist attack.

    When using a marginal caliber, feeding reliability, shot placement, proven ability to produce accurate and rapid multiple hits with deep penetration are most important. You want not less than 20” of water or 12” of gelatin penetration. Professional users of deep-concealment, hideaway guns agree, based on police and military experience dating back to Fairbairn and Sykes exploits in China before WW2, and continuing through the Cold War era. Light-weight, short-nosed, hollow-point bullets often fail to feed and may also fail to penetrate larger bones or defeat intermediate cover, such as a defensively positioned arm, thereby failing to reach vital organs.

    Comparing European CIP specification 73-77-grain .32 ACP hardball to typical .380 FMJs fired from similarly short barrels any difference in lethality is not enough to be important. Light-weight .380 ACP bullets of fragile enough construction to expand from very short barrels, such as in the Ruger LCP, often fail to penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs. Typical Euro 73-77 grain hardball typically does a 180-degree "flip" during its first 6-8" of soft-target penetration, continuing base-first to cause more damage than its kinetic energy would suggest. Bullets tend to bounce around "like a billard ball" inside the body cavity, rather than penetrating in a straight path "rather making a mess of things" so says my shooting buddy "ER Doc" in Washington, DC who has long experience with gang bangers and dopers. The pelvic bone adjacent the groin is only about 4.5mm thick and a double-tap to the lateral pelvis even with .32 ACP hardball causes massive damage, extensive bleeding and excruciating, incapacitating pain, he says. "A finishing head shot afterwards usually indicates a professional hit."

    In my testing of numerous different .32 ACP pocket guns, no JHP loads currently available expand reliably in either water jugs or gelatin when fired from barrels shorter than 3 inches. US commercial .32 ACP loads are all "anemic" compared to their CIP-Euro counterparts and less reliable in function. Many WWII-era European .32 auto holster pistols steadfastly refuse to function with US ammo, even 75-grain Buffalo Bore, which otherwise is the best US load IF your gun will run it.

    In my testing the JHP and hard cast lead flat-nosed rounds such as Buffalo Bore, by being less than 0.945" overall cartridge length, are not reliable enough for defense carry due to rimlock when rounds may shuffle in the magazine stack, due to recoil. In most guns short rounds are a sure recipe for the dreaded “Jam-O-Matic.” The Beretta 81 is the only .32 ACP pistol I have tested which ran Buffalo Bore 75-grain hard-cast FN out of the box with no drips, runs or errors, being due to its double-stack magazine. The heavy slide and stiff recoil spring of the Beretta 81 series also helps to mitigate against heavier loads pounding its light-alloy frame to the death, a common cause of premature failure in the Keltec and Beretta Tomcat "mouse guns" when shot a lot.

    The best .32 ACP pistols for pocket carry should enable safe carry with the chamber loaded. They should also be capable of immediate firing by stroking the trigger without having to manipulate an external safety. In the event of a misfire, the trigger mechanism should enable an immediate repeat strike upon the primer by repeating the trigger stroke. The gun should also produce not less than 0.010" copper indent on the government "C" sized .225x.400" copper crusher when used in the government gage holder. While drawings for the gage holders are in the public domain, coppers are not available to the gunsmith trade, but only to gun manufacturers and the labs who assess compliance with government contracts. The last time I bought any, the sole source was Olin, the minimum order 1000 coppers, and (in 2001) they cost about $1 each.

    So... gunsmiths and police armorers developed a "work-around." The Federal 200 primer used to be designated as being for "small rifle and magnum pistol," whereas today it is just "small pistol magnum." The base metal thickness of its primer cup is 0.018" + 0.0015"/-0.0000, the same as WW2 military M1 carbine and current military 9mm primers, versus 0.0125" + 0.0015/-0.000 for typical small pistol primers used in standard-pressure loads like the .32 ACP and .38 Special. The Remington 6-1/2 primer is analogous to the military .30 carbine primer and can be substituted for similar function tests.

    The proven work-around is to assemble 100 rounds in new brass, or once-fired brass in which you are hand-seating the primers into a CLEAN primer pocket. Then fire 100 rounds for function. Accept on zero failures to fire. If you get ONE misfire, repeat another 100-round sample, and accept on a total of no more than 1 fail-to-fire in 200 rounds, reject on 2. If your pistol does not pass, check firing pin driven protrusion to be within in the range of 0.028-0.032," check headspace to be within SAAMI limits, replace the hammer spring and test fire again!

    Pistols which readily meet these test criteria are the Walther PP (not the PPk) SIG P230, Mauser HSc, CZ27, original Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless (can't speak to the "re-pops") and the Beretta Models 1935, 70 and 81.

    The micro-pistols such as the Keltec P-32 and Beretta Tomcat are attractive for concealment, but they are difficult to shoot well. They are also not as durable as holster-sized pistols when fed a steady diet of heavy CIP-Euro heavy-ball loads or a high volume [over 2500 rounds] of standard-pressure SAAMI loads. My advice is to severely limit loads producing over 130 ft.-lbs. to only occasional or emergency use in the micro pistols because they may cause “slide bite” if you have meaty hands and don’t use a Hogue Grip Sleeve, as I painfully found out. After firing over 1000 rounds, hand-loads with bullets over 80 grains and 850 fps from them are “frame crackers.” My Beretta Model 3032 INOX Tomcat, which replaced my earlier blued version (in which the frame cracked after less than 500 rounds of RWS hardball) did somewhat better, and digested 2000 rounds of hot CIP-Euro and heavy-bullet hand loads before its frame cracked. (I replaced my .32 Tomcat with the original model Ruger LCP .380 for deep cover carry. It is still soldiering on after 2000 rounds of 120-grain lead FN hand-loads with Accurate 35-120H and 2.5 grains of Bullseye).

    The most effective carry load in the .32 ACP is a +P hand-load assembled with the Hornady 90-grain XTP bullet of .309" diameter with 3 grains of AutoComp, to an overall cartridge length of 0.950-0.955," which produces 930 fps. from a 3-1/2" barrel and 960 fps from the 3.8" Beretta 81. This load is best when limited to use in steel frame guns. If used in sturdy, alloy-frame holster guns with heavy slides and springs such as the Beretta 81 and M70 consider it +P and NOT for casual shooting in quantity if you want your gun to last!

    ONLY IF your barrel slugs larger than .310" groove diameter, it is then OK substitute the Hornady 85-grain XTP .312" intended for the .32 H&R Magnum for the same result. XTP bullets fired from the .32 ACP do not expand spectacularly as depicted in gun magazine hype, but expand "some," to about .40 cal., so are more effective than FMJ, and penetrate deeply.

    The classic Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless, Beretta 1935, CZ27, CZ50 and the Walther PP are steel-frame pistols which I have shot extensively with these heavy loads. These particular guns will reliably feed large flat-nosed bullets such as the Saeco #325 semi-wadcutter and the Accurate 31-095T. The Beretta 81 also feeds the large flat-nosed bullets and Buffalo Bore 75-grainers. In pistols which do not feed reliably with anything other than FMJRN "hardball" the best cast bullets are the 87-94 grain Accurate 31-087B, 31-087T and 31-094H.

    If you intend to standardize on bullets heavier than 80 grains in your .32 ACP pistols, it is VERY highly recommended that you replace the standard recoil spring with a .380 ACP version for the same model pistol, if available.

    Let’s be clear that the .32 ACP is not my choice as a defense gun against either two-legged or 4-legged predators. However, there are those times when “any gun is better than no gun,” so it is better to take an easily concealed .32 along than to go unarmed and take your chances. When the cylinder bulge of my usual Colt .38 Detective Special is too obvious, my 1903 Colt Pocket Hammerless, Beretta M1935 or SIG P230 drop nicely into a pocket holster. I shoot these better than my tiny Ruger LCP .380 and like the fact that a .32 makes a bigger hole than a 22 but still presents a low profile. With correct loads performance is equal to most factory loads in the .380 ACP. Typical .32 ACP pistols give you an additional round of magazine capacity too.

    We aren't talking about "one-shot stops" here, but to quickly and accurately put double or triple taps on target. The Italian Carabinieri practice 3-shots in 2 seconds at 5 metres or 2 shots in 2 seconds at 10 metres, aiming at a 10 cm x 8 cm oval which represents the nose, eyes and forehead of a terrorist. While these days they carry 9mm pistols, the drill dates back to the WW2 era and the .32 ACP and .380 ACP Berettas. Multiple hits increase stopping power.

    Think of a .32 ACP as delivering a 00 buckshot pattern which arrives sequentially rather than concurrently. Do you want to stand in front of it? Didn't think so...

    A historical anecdote from Caroline Moorehead's book "A House In The Mountains" pgs. 320-321 has lessons for us even today.

    "After VE day the Allies insisted on collecting the weapons which had been air dropped to Italian partisans during the war. In order to prevent a Communist takeover there could be no weapons with which to do it. On 9 May 1945 the process of disarming the Italian partisans began. The fighters were invited to assemble at collection centers to turn in their weapons and ammunition and in return would receive a bolt of cloth and 7000L with which to turn it into civilian dress. The handover was staged with some degree of ceremony with flags, military bands and political speeches... But the organizers did not understand that the men and women they were dealing with were not eager, self-respecting and docile, but seasoned, war-weary combat veterans who did not trust this new set of occupiers any more than the Germans.

    As the weapons were being handed over the Allies noticed that they consisted mostly of larger items, bazookas, mortars, machineguns and large quantities of bolt-action rifles, but very few of the SMGs, pistols, revolvers and semi-automatic carbines which were so much in evidence in the days leading up to The Liberation... Borne away into the valleys, concealed in attics, barns and cellars or buried in pits in the garden were scores of grenades, carbines, SMGs, pistols and revolvers. Later the Allies who made over 50 raids across the Italian Piedmont in search of hidden weapons would estimate that less than 60 percent of what had been dropped was actually returned."


    ##

  2. #2
    Great write up. That ending quote is pure gold. There is so much truth in a light review of history.

    But I have an issue/question - I love/hate the Colt 1903 pattern. Beauty on the belt, but so darn slippery, like wet soap. Does the 7.65 loadings from Europe provide any advantages relative harder primers or those a preference in US reload components?

  3. #3
    Any chance someone reading this knows if the following firing pin stands a chance of fitting a 32 ACP 1910?

    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1215230A

    While not a serious use gun, I'd like my FN to stop being a mere paperweight. I'd be curious to see if handloads running the bullet from a 32 S&W Long would hit to sights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkBlue View Post
    Great write up. That ending quote is pure gold. There is so much truth in a light review of history.

    But I have an issue/question - I love/hate the Colt 1903 pattern. Beauty on the belt, but so darn slippery, like wet soap. Does the 7.65 loadings from Europe provide any advantages relative harder primers or those a preference in US reload components?
    I've not had any issues setting off Remington 6-1/2 small rifle or Federal 200 small pistol magnum primers in my heavy .32 ACP loads in either my Colt Type III, SIG P230, Beretta M1935 or Beretta 81. The Euro-CIP loads do have harder primers, but the original Colts and the European pistols also easily exceed the minimum desired 0.010" copper indent, typically producing 0.012" copper indent, meeting the indent spec. for NATO 9mm.

    Haven't measured indent on copper in a Keltec, but it's easy to load a couple boxes of ammo in new Starline brass with Remington 6-1/2s and see if they run.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-16-2021 at 11:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    Any chance someone reading this knows if the following firing pin stands a chance of fitting a 32 ACP 1910?

    https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1215230A

    While not a serious use gun, I'd like my FN to stop being a mere paperweight. I'd be curious to see if handloads running the bullet from a 32 S&W Long would hit to sights.
    I cannot speak to this specific part, but I've had less than stellar results with their reproduction parts for Colt D-frame revolvers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrkBlue View Post
    Great write up. That ending quote is pure gold....

    But I have an issue/question - I love/hate the Colt 1903 pattern. Beauty on the belt, but so darn slippery, like wet soap. Does the 7.65 loadings from Europe provide any advantages relative harder primers or those a preference in US reload components?
    The Euro loads do use heavier primer cup material.to mitigate flow of primer cup material into the firing pin hole in the slide face. My wartime Beretta pistols the modern Model.81 and Colt Type II .32 ACP made in 1914 reliably set off. Federal 200, Remington 6-1/2 and WSR small rifle primers and with new springs produce 0.012" indent on a size "C" annealed copper crusher using the government gage. Same striker indent as the spec for the US M9 pistol. A striker indent of less than 0.010 which is off-center more than half the diameter of the striker point WILL cause misfires.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 09-03-2022 at 12:58 PM.

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    I have been considering stoking up my Colt 1903, circa 1918 I think (284xxx)...honestly the only reason I haven't is because I don't really like/want to carry a gun that isn't in production anymore and/or may have some collector value. And the funny thing is...1903 prices are going through the roof. I paid I think $400 for this gun in like 2006? 2007? And I saw one in worse condition for more than $900 at a local store, and I'm sure if I go back it won't be there next week...if it is, I might buy it!

    About the only gun I think might be nicer for a 32 pocketable carry gun would be a Mauser HSc...I have a couple, both are wartime so carrying either is not in the cards.

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    Though only a P32, it has been more reliable than almost any .380 I’ve tried, including a G42. It’s more pleasant to shoot and Kel Tec fixed what issues I had after buying it used. It was an old Gen 1 and they fixed it for free, and all I had to do was pay $25 for shipping.


    Are there larger .32s that are drop safe? Can you somewhat easily find the more reliable .32 rounds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    ...
    Are there larger .32s that are drop safe? Can you somewhat easily find the more reliable .32 rounds?
    Mauser HSc, Beretta 81, SIG P230, Walther PP. However the hammer dropping safety lever on the Walthers is a single point of failure! Many of the former German police trade-ins have seen heavy use and the safety shaft lever may break. Wayne Dobbs and I have both experienced this. Numrich replacement parts of unknown history also prone to this failure mechanism. New OEM part shipped from Walther in Germany is $100 plus gunsmith fitting.

    My vote is for Beretta 81 or SIG P230 - if you can find one of the P230 .32s. Mine can be carried either cocked and locked like an M1911, or if the hammer is lowered on an empty chamber the decocking lever does so gently without impacting the safety, thus mitigating the work-hardening issue.

    Best factory FMJ are the 77-grain Norma or Sako rounds. Also good are the 73-74 grain RWS, Geco. FN, Fiocchi, S-B, Hirtenberg, Lapua. Any of the CIP certified. You can find on Ammo Seek. Older WW2-era Rem-UMC, WRA, Super-X in 73-grain were loaded to Euro specs, have oil-proofed, non corrosive primers and are sure-fire if properly stored. I snag allI find at estate sales.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 09-04-2022 at 02:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    Though only a P32, it has been more reliable than almost any .380 I’ve tried, including a G42. It’s more pleasant to shoot and Kel Tec fixed what issues I had after buying it used. It was an old Gen 1 and they fixed it for free, and all I had to do was pay $25 for shipping.


    Are there larger .32s that are drop safe? Can you somewhat easily find the more reliable .32 rounds?
    The ones that work, work. Not too hard to find one that works.
    Putting better sights on it was one of the best things I ever did...

    http://instagram.com/p/CgSeDAOu_dZ/

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