Posts moved from the Ollie North/NRA thread that aren't about North or the NRA

[BillSWPA]

No, the ACLU isn't. But in that case, we had an African-American man who was lawfully carrying a gun killed because he was carrying a gun. The ACLU is there. Not the NRA.

Do you see how that looks? "The NRA is for the rights of gun-owners, unless they're carrying while black and get shot by the cops."

We all saw the livestream of the aftermath for months, but when the other video came out showing what led up to the Castille shooting, we saw everything the cop did to try to prevent having to shoot. It would have been a big mistake for the NRA to get involved in that one.

Zimmerman is worlds apart from that case, with evidence showing he was taken down and mounted by a much larger attacker who was pounding his head into the pavement.



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[BillSWPA]

Maybe for some people. For others, it's not as clear. Red State once made this observation about Trump's stance on guns:

Trump’s answer to “crime in the black community” is, basically, “tell the cops to stop and frisk more black people.”

Attachment 38247

We could certainly do worse than Trump on the presidential pro-2A advocacy scale. But I confess, the Trump administration hasn't quite earned my complete trust on the issue of guns.

That Red State article completely distorted the nature of a Terry Stop, although I do not doubt that abuse of power sometimes occurs.



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[Tiffany Johnson]

That Red State article completely distorted the nature of a Terry Stop...

Fair point. I guess my larger concern was not so much Red State's interpretation of Terry v. Ohio but Trump's tendency to make impulsive suggestions along the lines of "take the guns first, go through due process second."

[BillSWPA]

Fair point. I guess my larger concern was not so much Red State's interpretation of Terry v. Ohio but Trump's tendency to make impulsive suggestions along the lines of "take the guns first, go through due process second."

Good point as well.

One thing I have learned about Trump is to judge his performance by what he does rather than by what he says. He would have much more support if he would shut up and let Sarah Sanders and Kellyanne Conway do their jobs.

Some of what he has said has been concerning, but fortunately he was persuaded to back off of his one suggestion re: due process coming after taking the guns.



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[0ddl0t]

We all saw the livestream of the aftermath for months, but when the other video came out showing what led up to the Castille shooting, we saw everything the cop did to try to prevent having to shoot.

wut?



21:05:52 Castile: "Sir I have to tell you I have a.."
Yanez: "ok"
Castile: "...firearm..."
Yanez: "ok"
21:05:54 Castile: "...on me"
21:05:55 Yanez (loosening gun from holster): "Don't reach for it then"
Castile: "I'm I'm I'm"
21:05:57 Yanez (drawing gun): "Don't pull it out."
Castile: "I'm not pulling it out."
21:05:58 Yanez (raising gun): "Don't pull it out!"
21:05:59 (Yanez shoots 7 times at <1 yard, hitting 5 times)
21:06:03 Reynolds: "You just killed my boyfriend"
21:06:05 Castile: "Ahhh! I wasn't reaching"
21:06:07 Reynolds: "He wasn't reaching"
21:06:08 Yanez: "DON'T PULL IT OUT!"
Castile: "I wasn't"
Reynolds: "He wasn't."
Yanez: "DON'T MOVE!"
21:06:09 Reynolds: "Oh man I can't believe you just did that."

[BillSWPA]

wut?



21:05:52 Castile: "Sir I have to tell you I have a.."
Yanez: "ok"
Castile: "...firearm..."
Yanez: "ok"
21:05:54 Castile: "...on me"
21:05:55 Yanez (loosening gun from holster): "Don't reach for it then"
Castile: "I'm I'm I'm"
21:05:57 Yanez (drawing gun): "Don't pull it out."
Castile: "I'm not pulling it out."
21:05:58 Yanez (raising gun): "Don't pull it out!"
21:05:59 (Yanez shoots 8 times)
21:06:03 Reynolds: "You just killed my boyfriend"
21:06:05 Castile: "Ahhh! I wasn't reaching"
21:06:07 Reynolds: "He wasn't reaching"
21:06:08 Yanez: "DON'T PULL IT OUT!"
Castile: "I wasn't"
Reynolds: "He wasn't."
Yanez: "DON'T MOVE!"
21:06:09 Reynolds: "Oh man I can't believe you just did that."

He had to be told 3 times to stop what he was doing and still continued. Thank you for proving my point.

The fact that we are even debating this shows exactly why the NRA should hesitate to get involved.



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[0ddl0t]

He had to be told 3 times to stop what he was doing and still continued. Thank you for proving my point.

The fact that we are even debating this shows exactly why the NRA should hesitate to get involved.

We can't see what happened in the car, but it is pretty clear from Yanez' interruptions that he wasn't really listening to Castile. We also see that officer Kauser is completely flat footed and has perceived no threat when Yanez starts shooting.

Yanez thought he had pulled over an armed robbery suspect (wide nose???), not an impoverished cafeteria worker coming home from the grocery store with a busted tail light - one who had been pulled over 52 other times for minor infractions & fix-its without being shot.

Yanez' first statement, still at the scene, was:

" [Castile] was sitting in the car, seat belted. I told him, 'Can I see your license?' And then, he told me he had a firearm. I told him not to reach for it and (sigh) when he went down to grab, I told him not to reach for it (clears throat) and then he kept it right there, and I told him to take his hands off of it, and then he (sigh) he had his, his grip a lot wider than a wallet .... And I don't know where the gun was, he didn't tell me where the fucking gun was, and then it was just getting hinky, he gave, he was just staring ahead, and then I was getting fucking nervous, and then I told him, I know I fucking told him to get his fucking hand off his gun."

...basically admitting he never actually saw the gun and got freaked out by Castile's body language (who was probably getting freaked by Yanez screaming at him).

Reynolds, who did nothing but livestream the aftermath, spent the night in custody.

[BillSWPA]

We can't see what happened in the car, but it is pretty clear from Yanez' interruptions that he wasn't really listening to Castile. We also see that officer Kauser is completely flat footed and has perceived no threat when Yanez starts shooting.

Yanez thought he had pulled over an armed robbery suspect (wide nose???), not an impoverished cafeteria worker coming home from the grocery store with a busted tail light - one who had been pulled over 52 other times for minor infractions & fix-its without being shot.

Yanez' first statement, still at the scene, was:

" [Castile] was sitting in the car, seat belted. I told him, 'Can I see your license?' And then, he told me he had a firearm. I told him not to reach for it and (sigh) when he went down to grab, I told him not to reach for it (clears throat) and then he kept it right there, and I told him to take his hands off of it, and then he (sigh) he had his, his grip a lot wider than a wallet .... And I don't know where the gun was, he didn't tell me where the fucking gun was, and then it was just getting hinky, he gave, he was just staring ahead, and then I was getting fucking nervous, and then I told him, I know I fucking told him to get his fucking hand off his gun."

...basically admitting he never actually saw the gun and got freaked out by Castile's body language (who was probably getting freaked by Yanez screaming at him).

Reynolds, who did nothing but livestream the aftermath, spent the night in custody.

Castille continued to reach for something even after being told repeatedly not to do so. If the officer waited until he could actually see the gun his wife would be a widow had Castille intended to shoot,



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[Zincwarrior]

wut?



21:05:52 Castile: "Sir I have to tell you I have a.."
Yanez: "ok"
Castile: "...firearm..."
Yanez: "ok"
21:05:54 Castile: "...on me"
21:05:55 Yanez (loosening gun from holster): "Don't reach for it then"
Castile: "I'm I'm I'm"
21:05:57 Yanez (drawing gun): "Don't pull it out."
Castile: "I'm not pulling it out."
21:05:58 Yanez (raising gun): "Don't pull it out!"
21:05:59 (Yanez shoots 7 times at <1 yard, hitting 5 times)
21:06:03 Reynolds: "You just killed my boyfriend"
21:06:05 Castile: "Ahhh! I wasn't reaching"
21:06:07 Reynolds: "He wasn't reaching"
21:06:08 Yanez: "DON'T PULL IT OUT!"
Castile: "I wasn't"
Reynolds: "He wasn't."
Yanez: "DON'T MOVE!"
21:06:09 Reynolds: "Oh man I can't believe you just did that."

Exactly.

[drummer]

Taking sides in any OIS, no matter how justified, or not, is not a winning strategy for the NRA. Having welcoming, open doors for all people, minorities and LEOs alike, is what it will take. Let the judicial system do its' work.

If this is allowed to fester, with more bad news trickling out, little by little, it very well may become the effective death of the NRA. We can little afford this right now. Let's cutoff the head of the snake and salvage what we can.