Great poll and follow on discussion. Following.
Great poll and follow on discussion. Following.
“If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." - Miyamoto Musashi
I'll add:
Shooting rds has made me a better irons shooter. Seeing that dot constantly move/wiggle/jump is comparable to having a full-time shooting coach who points out what you're doing during presentation and trigger press-----much more than focusing on front sight alone can. This visual indicator offers huge feedback on grip/hold/press/technique, which helps build discipline, and that greater discipline translates to shooting irons.
I changed due to eyesight. It was difficult for me when I started as I was trying to look for the front sight and then find the dot as I would do to align irons.
Then I started working on NPOA. What a revelation for me. The dot just is there when I point to a target. And as others have said, my irons got significantly better using NPOA.
If you are already using NPOA, the transition to a dot should be relatively quick and easy. If not, I feel you should, no matter what you shoot.
Thank you Tactical Performance Center.
With liberty and justice for all...must be 18, void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply, not available in all states.
Yes. Todd Jarrett, USPSA and IPSC champion remarked years ago that shooting a dot(on pistol) improved his iron sight shooting. The OP asked of improvement could be expected. Answer, IMO, yes, if you work through familiarization with whatever you choose. In my case, very fortunate to have a department range and access to same. I believe a few hundred rounds over a day or few to get the zero, indexing, etc.-AND DRY FIRE.
Read @GJM, Dr. Roberts and others here; they all have deep experience in their respective spheres. My relatively limited experience indicates around a 10% improvement. Harder to quantify, but shooting also “seems easier”.
Come on in-water feels pretty good...
I'm certainly no expert shot by any stretch, and I suck badly compared to most here. But I have never been able to "track a front sight in recoil" and watch it return. My rapid fire with irons starts degrading into rapid semi-aimed point shooting because I just can't track the sights. But with a dot I can see the thing snap up and as it comes back down into view I can watch it track to the target and time the trigger press. Assuming I do my part there, it works a whole lot better. I've noticed an improvement in accuracy for the same time standard, and an improvement in speed for comparable accuracy. In short, tracking a dot is feasible for me; tracking irons never worked.
I find myself struggling more with irons now past 5-7 yards or so. It's not seeing the front sight--I can see it fine, though I don't think I'm judging well whether I'm perfectly aligned with the rear or not--but seeing the target. Past that 5-7 yard distance, the target gets so blurry and indistinct when I'm focusing on the front sight that I can't pick specific aiming points. Put a printable B-8 at 25 yards and the black pretty much disappears; I see a really fuzzy white blob (the letter-size paper it's printed on) on a really fuzzy brown blob (the target backer) and no black at all. I aim for the really fuzzy blob and hope for the best. I think some of it is age (I'm only 34, but I work a desk/computer job)--I used to like to plink spent shotgun shells at 25 yards with irons and a .22 rifle and now I can't even see the darned things at that distance if I'm trying to shoot with irons. Basically, with irons I aim at what seems to be where my desired aim point should be and I think the sights are aligned. With a dot, I can aim an a specific point on the target and there's no sight to align.
The dot takes all that visual stuff out of the picture (get it?). My distance shots are much improved. I can shoot at a moderate pace with the dot about almost a well as I could with untimed slow fire and irons. I can now call a fair number of my shots (vs. pretty much never with irons) and self-diagnose while I'm shooting. I still need to work on presentations; my times may be a little slower with the dot right now but my sight picture and shot is much improved vs. with irons. My shooting still sucks, but it's better than it was and I think that improvement in my case means the iron sights and sight picture part were components of my suckiness. I've eliminated a variable, in other words.
Last edited by gtae07; 05-16-2019 at 08:22 PM.
"Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire." - R. A. Heinlein
Shooting iron sights is an art, where shooting a dot is closer to science.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
You can expect an instant real improvement. You can also expect to instantly feel like a retard; if not, you're either lucky or you haven't tested all aspects. Read GJM's post # 9 carefully. "Shooting" is multifaceted, as is "performance" validation. Optics are different too, and what's pressed into one type of use, with its unique performance measurements, may never be used in other shooting circles. Try to understand what's your circle and type of shooting because it will matter. The overwhelming chance is that by going that route and sticking to it, you will get a net positive even if your eye sight is 20/20. How positive would be very individual.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
New guy here but I had to chime in... I could have written your post, word for word. I've been working with a G19/RM06 for a few months now and it is night and day vs irons: finally I can track the dot during recoil!
Add in the expanded field of view you get with the dot... now the target is in focus plus it is not being obscured by a "large" front sight post.
And unless you have already mastered perfect trigger control the Dry Fire aspect can not be overlooked... you get instant feedback with every trigger press. Irons always hid small deflections during my dry fire practice leaving me unable to progress past what I could not see. Now I can see and track every "shot" when I dry fire and KNOW whether it was a good hit or not. This of course also translates directly to live fire allowing me to actually call my shots. Finally.
So did I "buy" skills improvement? Maybe. But I feel the main reason I have seen large improvements in my shooting is better trigger control due to better dry fire practice. Either way, I don't care... I am a better shooter with an RDS and am confident my skills will continue to improve at an increased pace versus sticking to irons.
If you have good vision, which the OP appears to have based on his iron sight performance, then RDS is nice to have.
If your vision is “not what it used to be” then it is a game changer.
YMMV.
I voted 100% sell your soul, bla bla, - but I believe it is a healthy dose below that.
I held off for a long time, but wished I would have jumped in sooner. What is said above resonates with what I have experienced and feel like could be expected.
Most of us that are DEEP into pistol shooting/training (aka pistol forum members) - we are going to spend the money on ammo or training or matches anyways. I think taking some of those dollars and investing them into a dot gives a lot of independent coaching + training. Like having a little coach on your slide.
For example, I have found Stoegers trigger control at speed with a dot immensely valuable for gaining ground in trigger control and grip.
The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.
Humbly improving with CZ's.