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Thread: Long barrel 9mm defensive ammo

  1. #1

    Long barrel 9mm defensive ammo

    There seems to be a bit of a pistol caliber carbine craze going on right now. But nearly all defensive 9mm ammo seems designed around 4" barrels, and the rest for shorter barrels. Is there anything out there that is optimized for carbine length barrels (assuming 16") or long barreled pistols (NFA length weapons, whether actual SBRs or braced pistols)? I think there'd be a market for such.

  2. #2
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    Someone may be able to test some quality 147gr. defensive ammunition in the longer barrel and let us know how it works.

  3. #3
    All I see is 3-gun gamers loading -P to get pistol velocity from a 16" barrel.

    Serious ammo should have "bonded" bullets, copper bullets, or slow expanders like XTP.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

  4. #4
    Here is a company selling ammo loaded with an expanding solid copper bullet intended for carbine use only
    https://makerbullets.com/proddetail.php?prod=9mm75PREX

    More info
    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...e-in-carbines/

  5. #5
    DocGKR says:

    " Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding."

    And:

    " Note that handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, do not generally exhibit the fragmentation effects produced by rifle bullets. If handgun bullets do fragment, the bullet fragments are usually found within 1 cm of the permanent cavity; wound severity is usually decreased by the fragmentation since the bullet mass is reduced, causing a smaller permanent crush cavity. "

    9mm, even from a carbine or SMG... is still pretty much a big long barreled 9mm handgun, terminal effects wise. PCC's are popular because ammo is cheap, they can be fired on handgun ranges, and they have recently been allowed into what were formerly "pistol only" gun games... NOT because they are more effective than a rifle/SBR. Easier than a handgun to shoot well, is about the only advantage I can think of.

    The boost in velocity you get shooting lighter 9mm bullets usually fragments JHP worse, and results in shallow penetration. even with super light 90gr bullets, you are not getting into "rifle effects" velocities. 147's do not gain much, if anything from longer barrels.

  6. #6
    Yes, but a PCC might tend to be used at longer ranges than a handgun. That being the case, an higher muzzle velocity out of the PCC may keep the terminal velocity were it should be at longer range. Higher velocity may also keep the bullet on a flatter trajectory.

    Quote Originally Posted by WDR View Post
    DocGKR says:

    " Unlike rifle bullets, handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, generally only disrupt tissue by the crush mechanism. In addition, temporary cavitation from most handgun bullets does not reliably damage tissue and is not usually a significant mechanism of wounding."

    And:

    " Note that handgun bullets, regardless of whether they are fired from pistols or SMG’s, do not generally exhibit the fragmentation effects produced by rifle bullets. If handgun bullets do fragment, the bullet fragments are usually found within 1 cm of the permanent cavity; wound severity is usually decreased by the fragmentation since the bullet mass is reduced, causing a smaller permanent crush cavity. "

    9mm, even from a carbine or SMG... is still pretty much a big long barreled 9mm handgun, terminal effects wise. PCC's are popular because ammo is cheap, they can be fired on handgun ranges, and they have recently been allowed into what were formerly "pistol only" gun games... NOT because they are more effective than a rifle/SBR. Easier than a handgun to shoot well, is about the only advantage I can think of.

    The boost in velocity you get shooting lighter 9mm bullets usually fragments JHP worse, and results in shallow penetration. even with super light 90gr bullets, you are not getting into "rifle effects" velocities. 147's do not gain much, if anything from longer barrels.
    Last edited by BBMW; 05-16-2019 at 11:52 AM.

  7. #7
    A camel named Charlie... TGS's Avatar
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    I think @WDR 's point, and rightfully so, is that you're not going to get any significant advantages in terminal ballistics with a PCC; there's no "long barrel load" that will do anything that a regular quality self-defense/duty load won't do.

    That has nothing to do with whether you like PCCs because of a insignificantly flatter trajectory or any other aspect of why you like PCCs.
    Last edited by TGS; 05-16-2019 at 01:04 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  8. #8
    1) as pointed out above, the PCC doesn’t appear to offer ballistic advantages over a proper 9mm duty load out of a pistol, and may even do worse ballistically as the velocity is different than intended.

    2) watching many different PCC operate in USPSA, their reliability is terrible compared to a rifle cartridge AR, like in 5.56/.300 BLK.

    3) given #1 and 2 above, and considering ease of handling, concealment and deployment, a red dot pistol seems a better choice than a semi-auto 9mm carbine.

    4) .300 BLK is a whole different option, and seems the way to go with a little long gun.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #9
    From reading, it looks like many 9mm actually slow down in a 16" back to similar velocities seen in ~5" barrels, and that the highest velocities come from ~9-11" barrels. I'd think velocity and terminal performance out of a 16" PCC using factory 9mm would be about the same as conventional duty pistol results.

  10. #10
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    A couple of my thoughts, which are probably at best somewhat suspect given my low actual experience with PCC's:

    1. My initial recommendation would be for Winchester Ranger 127 gr +P+, which seemed to take on .357 SIG characteristics in my Glock 34;

    2. The entire PCC thing still has me somewhat scratching my head; why remain with a pistol cartridge when you can move up to an intermediate cartridge, such as 7.62 X 39 in the same sized package with a far greater tactical/performance credibility?

    I understand the siren song of new toys in small (or relatively so) packages, and I understand manufacturers' compulsion to create a new market niche/profit stream in a somewhat saturated gun market. I even understand how one of the founders of IDPA can come behind the PCC thing even though it seems inimical, if not at cross-purposes to the essential tenants of a sport like IDPA (i.e., on person concealed carry) (and I'm sure that it's probably a coincidence that said manufacturer produces PCCs.....).

    Tactically, I absolutely can see the viability of a pistol caliber submachine gun-the Russians seminally developed and refined that concept during WWII with the PPSH (and the Germans with the MP40), but I'm really struggling with the validity (tactically, at least) of a PCC other than as a "fun" gun (and not that there's anything wrong with that per se).

    Rant off.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 05-16-2019 at 03:55 PM.

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