Tensions with Iran

[BehindBlueI's]

One thing I've always wondered is if Saddam actually believed he had a WMD program. If The Fearless Leader calls you up and says "I want a 1,000 barrels of nerve gas by Friday!" I would imagine that explaining to him in technical detail about how that simply isn't possible wouldn't be life-enhancing. Instead, you show up next Friday with a 1,000 barrels of distilled water and enough real stuff to kill a couple of hapless victims in case he wants a demonstration.

It's been awhile since I read any of this, but I don't think he was duped. At least according to him. He faked having a weapons program because he thought Iran was his most likely threat and wanted them afraid. He figured if the US bought into it, they'd bomb him for a couple of days and then move on. His plan was to start a real weapons program after the bombing figuring the US would be unlikely to repeat another bombing campaign immediately.

I wonder if he wasn't concerned with the Kurds as well, but I don't think he ever mentioned them in his interviews or trial.

[Wake27]

"Totally fabricated" isn't really fair or accurate. You can argue how much was willful ignorance and how much was legitimately being fooled by Saddam, but both the US and UK's intel reports were based on actual intelligence from Iraq. You know how North Korea releases those propaganda tapes pretending to have tech they don't? Saddam had a pretend WMD program. It was largely to keep Iran on their side of the fence. He didn't think the US would buy it, and believed if they did the result would simply do a limited bombing campaign in retaliation. So, not "totally fabricated" even if ultimately incorrect.

As far as what does Iran have to gain? Well, off the top of my head they are demonstrating that they aren't powerless. A country that has the capability and the will to damage the energy supply to a given country gets that given country's attention and increases their power at the negotiating table. It also gets the attention of the economies affected by that given country, etc.

Well said. And while we never found nukes in Iraq, they absolutely had chem weapons which still fall under the same umbrella. Plus, there's really no such thing as really solid intelligence on that scale.

[Stephanie B]

Commander Salamander, who is hardly a leftie, is recommending everyone calm the frak down.

His main point is that this only becomes our problem if we so choose to make it our business.

If you want to sink a ship with a limpet mine, you place it under the ship's waterline. Blowing a small hole in the side of a ship well above the waterline, at a part of a ship where nobody is expected to be, seems more like a provocation.

The tar baby is beckoning. Pompeo and Bolton seem eager to fall into its embrace.

[ralph]

Literally nothing that you said has anything to do with this incident. I never claimed stuff like that doesn’t happen but if you don’t think Iran had anything to do with it, you might want to find better sources.


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I don't need better sources..I want to see the proof first.. we got the last gulf war started based on a lie that Iraq has WMD, How'd that work out? Now since you wrote your post, video has surfaced that shows what appears to be an unexploded mine off of one of the ships.. Is that enough evidence to start a war over? Hmmm, I don't know, we went to war for less, as the Iraq war proved..IMO what needs to happen now is to greatly increase the pressure on Iran.. That seems to be working, let the people of Iran overthrow their own goverment, We don't need to do it for them..

[Duelist]

Well said. And while we never found nukes in Iraq, they absolutely had chem weapons which still fall under the same umbrella. Plus, there's really no such thing as really solid intelligence on that scale.

They definitely had chemical weapons, so I’m always a bit perplexed when people say Iraq had no WMDs. No nukes =/= no WMDs. And they had actively used chemical weapons on the Kurds in Iraq and on Iranian military and civilians in the past, under Saddam’s leadership. No real indication that his willingness to do so again in the future had changed.

[hufnagel]

Notice that the countries you claim are standing in our way are part of the axis of evil. As far as hegemony, we have been the leader of the free world since before WWI. We aren't trying to control the world, we are trying to look out for ourselves for a change. Countries that are based on socialism/communism can't compete with us. That is there problem, not ours.

Trump was always vocal about the Fed raising the rates. He is finally being listened to. Lower rates mean business growth. You are right, nothing was fixed from 2008 to 2016. Businesses are finally getting a better climate. 2018 had a 3% growth overall. Trump haters predicted a collapse. Now 3% is suddenly not enough. Now they are predicting a recession.

Give me a break.

Am I the only one who thinks interest rates are TOO low?
Fiscal conservatism is best when you're on the sweet spot for interest rates; it's not TOO expensive to borrow money, but it's still expensive enough that it forces people to make wiser decisions with their money, and it also promotes savings, which in turn promotes a degree of stiffness to disaster when it comes to personal economic incidences.
Personally, I think that somewhere between 6% and 8% on a mortgage is the right interest rate, if we needed to pick something as a bellwether.

[Chance]

This was posted on the article Stephanie linked to.

https://twitter.com/@twitter/status/1139346296341508096

[Wake27]

I don't need better sources..I want to see the proof first.. we got the last gulf war started based on a lie that Iraq has WMD, How'd that work out? Now since you wrote your post, video has surfaced that shows what appears to be an unexploded mine off of one of the ships.. Is that enough evidence to start a war over? Hmmm, I don't know, we went to war for less, as the Iraq war proved..IMO what needs to happen now is to greatly increase the pressure on Iran.. That seems to be working, let the people of Iran overthrow their own goverment, We don't need to do it for them..

Well, nobody actually has the right to see any proof besides congress. As much as I dislike them, and not that I’m at all advocating or expecting this to go to war, there is no responsibility on the government’s part to give the American public any proof. Congress declares war, not the public. Plus, the last several decades have obviously proven that conflict without a declaration is common practice. And as much as I think a certain level of transparency is necessary, there is plenty of info that the American public should not have access to.


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[BehindBlueI's]

They definitely had chemical weapons, so I’m always a bit perplexed when people say Iraq had no WMDs. No nukes =/= no WMDs. And they had actively used chemical weapons on the Kurds in Iraq and on Iranian military and civilians in the past, under Saddam’s leadership. No real indication that his willingness to do so again in the future had changed.

Because the very little chemical weapons they had were things like old mortar rounds that were dated to the Iran-Iraq war and most were degraded to the point they were inert. The only yellowcake found was already known and accounted for by international monitoring. The intel said they had an ongoing WMD program that was capable of producing a host of bad things on the bio/chem side, had mobile labs, etc. None of that turned out to be true. It's the equivalent of me writing a search warrant for your house for machinegun manufacturing, finding an old Colt SA revolver, and declaring I was right because you did have a firearm.

[Bart Carter]

Saddam was his own problem. All he had to do was let the inspectors inspect. Talk about a bad decision.