Remember the Maine!Originally Posted by Lester Polfus
Remember the Maine!
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts...
There's nothing civil about this war.
Honestly, I don't have an opinion about what Iran is up to in the straight because I don't know. I remember the adm said that there were WMD in Iraq. Totally fabricated to justify bombing the shit out of them and putting troops on the ground. All a bunch of BS from Bush and his adm. So, I'm not listening to this adm either.
The facts are Iran is being squeezed with sanctions. Their economy is in the toilet. Something has to change in Iran soon or there will be blood running in the streets. I used to work with two Iranians who left the country before the US backed gov't was overthrown. Both were well educated engineers from privileged families. One had an uncle who was SAVAK. His uncle put him on a plane in the middle of the night and told him he could never return to Iran. He still talks to relatives there and they all tell him the situation is extremely bad. My other friend was in the construction business and his family had close ties to the Shaw and US interests. He had to leave the country also.
Both of them told me that things have deteriorated dramatically ever since the Islamic Republic took power. Sometimes it's better to have a dictator who keeps things in order than a country ran by religious extremists. I think that was proven in Iraq.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Well, it was not that long ago when something similar happened, except in a sort of about face...
"MEMORANDUM HANDED BY THE JAPANESE AMBASSADOR (NOMURA) TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE AT 2:20 P.M. ON DECEMBER 7, 1941
1. The Government of Japan, prompted by a genuine desire to come to an amicable understanding with the Government of the United States in order that the two countries by their joint efforts may secure the peace of the Pacific Area and thereby contribute toward the realization of world peace, has continued negotiations with the utmost sincerity since April last with the Government of the United States regarding the adjustment and advancement of Japanese-American relations and the stabilization of the Pacific Area..."
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intre...dWar2/memo.htm
Also, regarding the Tonkin references, Admiral James B. Stockdale is on record saying that he flew the Gulf of Tonkin missions and that he personally saw the NV boats attacking the US vessels.
Last edited by Gray01; 06-13-2019 at 10:30 PM.
Not enough tin foil in the world.
Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
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"Totally fabricated" isn't really fair or accurate. You can argue how much was willful ignorance and how much was legitimately being fooled by Saddam, but both the US and UK's intel reports were based on actual intelligence from Iraq. You know how North Korea releases those propaganda tapes pretending to have tech they don't? Saddam had a pretend WMD program. It was largely to keep Iran on their side of the fence. He didn't think the US would buy it, and believed if they did the result would simply do a limited bombing campaign in retaliation. So, not "totally fabricated" even if ultimately incorrect.
As far as what does Iran have to gain? Well, off the top of my head they are demonstrating that they aren't powerless. A country that has the capability and the will to damage the energy supply to a given country gets that given country's attention and increases their power at the negotiating table. It also gets the attention of the economies affected by that given country, etc.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
It was well documented that US intelligence at the time tried to tell the adm that they weren't certain there were WMD's in Iraq. And they for sure didn't know because there were none. How's that for good solid intelligence? You don't commit a military operation of that magnitude without good solid intelligence, which they didn't have.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
One thing I've always wondered is if Saddam actually believed he had a WMD program. If The Fearless Leader calls you up and says "I want a 1,000 barrels of nerve gas by Friday!" I would imagine that explaining to him in technical detail about how that simply isn't possible wouldn't be life-enhancing. Instead, you show up next Friday with a 1,000 barrels of distilled water and enough real stuff to kill a couple of hapless victims in case he wants a demonstration.
I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.
That's a pretty drastic simplification of what happened, and ignores the other half of the equation: regardless of whether they actually had WMDs or not, they broke UN sanctions they had agreed to.....sanctions which carried the penalty of war. I've always thought we did a terrible job of "marketing" the invasion of Iraq. The Coalition was well within their right to invade, but we had a guy that was really bad behind the microphone.
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If anyone doesn't know what NIE stands for without having to google it, the same individuals should probably not open their mouths on the subject of our intelligence that led us into the war. There were mistakes made as a result of "poor workmanship" and political influence, but to then grossly simplify the situation as "outright fabrication" or that the war was conducted on a whim with weak intelligence is pretty bogus.
Last edited by TGS; 06-13-2019 at 11:57 PM.
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