Sons of Liberty Gunworks Occupied Zone “Other Firearm”

[HCM]

God, this is getting ridiculous.

This really only effects two groups:

Those in ban states with unconstitutional assault weapons bans whose only option is an “other firearm.” (These have my sympathy)

The other is douche bags who want to put a vertical fore grip without SBR/AOW stamp - not for any practical purpose but rather to start arguments and bitch when questioned by range staff who either don’t know the ins and outs of “other firearms” or don’t have magic measuring power to know the gun is > 26”.

[HCM]

This really only effects two groups:

Those in ban states with unconstitutional assault weapons bans whose only option is an “other firearm.” (These have my sympathy)

The other is douche bags who want to put a vertical fore grip without SBR/AOW stamp - not for any practical purpose but rather to start arguments and bitch when questioned by range staff who either don’t know the ins and outs of “other firearms” or don’t have magic measuring power to know the gun is > 26”.

For the former group 11.5” barrels should put them over 26”

[WobblyPossum]

So if you’re running one of the collapsible braces like the SBA3 or SBA4, your overall length is measured to the end of the receiver extension. As @HCM stated, that shouldn’t affect anyone with a barrel length of at least 11.5”. The folding brace guns are being hit more severely. If you add a LAW Tactical folding adapter or some other device that lets you fold your brace, you have to measure overall length with the brace folded. That’s going to take quite a few inches off your overall length.

I’ve wondered if we were going to see the ATF crack down on AR/AK pistols over the last couple of years. This might be the start of it. I hope we don’t see a reissuing of the decision that shouldering a braced pistol makes it an SBR.

[HCM]

So if you’re running one of the collapsible braces like the SBA3 or SBA4, your overall length is measured to the end of the receiver extension. As @HCM stated, that shouldn’t affect anyone with a barrel length of at least 11.5”. The folding brace guns are being hit more severely. If you add a LAW Tactical folding adapter or some other device that lets you fold your brace, you have to measure overall length with the brace folded. That’s going to take quite a few inches off your overall length.

I’ve wondered if we were going to see the ATF crack down on AR/AK pistols over the last couple of years. This might be the start of it. I hope we don’t see a reissuing of the decision that shouldering a braced pistol makes it an SBR.

The way I see it:

Clearly defining the braces as accessories actually reinforces the current interpretations regarding brace pistols being legit. Stocks are part of the gun braces are accessories which are not part of the gun. By clarifying that a brace is not a stock, you negate the argument that how you hold it (shouldering a brace ) can make it a “stock.”

Second, “other firearms” have recently seen a huge increase in popularity due to NY and CT laws. There has been a lot of gray area about how to get over the “magic” 26 inch mark. I think the clarification of what is and is not part of the length strengthens the position of those whose only option is “other firearms.”

[DpdG]

I have neither a LAW folder nor an inclination to put a VFG on anything other than a legal rifle or registered SBR, but for academic purposes it seems that an argument could be made that a LAW folder equipped firearm does not fully function unless unfolded, therefor the measurement should be in the unfolded position. If I were a smart man, I would become a lawyer specializing in firearms litigation so I could bill out such arguments, but instead I work 3rd shift......

[WobblyPossum]

The way I see it:

Clearly defining the braces as accessories actually reinforces the current interpretations regarding brace pistols being legit. Stocks are part of the gun braces are accessories which are not part of the gun. By clarifying that a brace is not a stock, you negate the argument that how you hold it (shouldering a brace ) can make it a “stock.”

Second, “other firearms” have recently seen a huge increase in popularity due to NY and CT laws. There has been a lot of gray area about how to get over the “magic” 26 inch mark. I think the clarification of what is and is not part of the length strengthens the position of those whose only option is “other firearms.”

I hadn’t thought of it that way. Hopefully you’re right.

[HCM]

I hadn’t thought of it that way. Hopefully you’re right.

Part of the definition of Pistols and AOW is that they are “concealable” and ATF has made 26” the magic OAL that defines whether a gun is “concealable” or not. The “other firearm” is “other” because being over 26” OAL makes it not “concealable” by ATF’s definition.

Given that, it makes sense that an “other firearm” with a law folder would need to exceed the magic 26” OAL in the folded portion rather than the open position.

Same with braces which can be adjusted for length.

Brace pistols have really taken off. I think at least part of the reason ATF came back around on shouldering braces being OK is because that genie is out of the bottle.

[HCM]

I have neither a LAW folder nor an inclination to put a VFG on anything other than a legal rifle or registered SBR, but for academic purposes it seems that an argument could be made that a LAW folder equipped firearm does not fully function unless unfolded, therefor the measurement should be in the unfolded position. If I were a smart man, I would become a lawyer specializing in firearms litigation so I could bill out such arguments, but instead I work 3rd shift......

You can fire it from the closed position - that meets the legal requirements of “function” in this instance. The fact that it doesn’t cycle from multiple shots is irrelevant.