Sons of Liberty Gunworks Occupied Zone “Other Firearm”

[WobblyPossum]

https://sonsoflibertygw.com/solgw-oc...-customizable/

They’re marketing this gun as NY legal and SAFE Act compliant. There isn’t an explanation on their site but they posted one on Instagram. Apparently it’s a combination of a couple of factors:

1. It’s classified by the manufacturer as “other firearm” instead of rifle or pistol
2. It has a pistol brace instead of a buttstock so it’s not a rifle
3. It has an overall length of over 26” and comes from the factory with the vertical forward grip installed so it’s not a pistol.

I know that manufacturers have tried similar things to get around the CT assault weapons ban. I’m not well versed on the SAFE Act, having left NY about a year after it was signed into law. For our members who are familiar with the technicalities, is this legit?

[Totem Polar]

I love giving anti-individual safety legislation the finger, so good on them.

On the other hand, if the choices of lower are between things like "angry patriot" and "soul snatcher edition," then I’ll pass with gas.

[HCM]

https://sonsoflibertygw.com/solgw-oc...-customizable/

They’re marketing this gun as NY legal and SAFE Act compliant. There isn’t an explanation on their site but they posted one on Instagram. Apparently it’s a combination of a couple of factors:

1. It’s classified by the manufacturer as “other firearm” instead of rifle or pistol
2. It has a pistol brace instead of a buttstock so it’s not a rifle
3. It has an overall length of over 26” and comes from the factory with the vertical forward grip installed so it’s not a pistol.

I know that manufacturers have tried similar things to get around the CT assault weapons ban. I’m not well versed on the SAFE Act, having left NY about a year after it was signed into law. For our members who are familiar with the technicalities, is this legit?

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm#p265.45

Maybe.

The way the NY Penal code works, there are three basic types of guns- Rifles, Shotguns and “Firearms.”

Any assault weapon and guns less than 26” that do not meet the normal definition of title 1 rifles and shotguns are “firearms” under NY law. Regular handguns, defined in the NYS Penal code as “pistols and revolvers” are also “firearms” under NY Law.

The possession of a “firearm” is a felony unless you fall into one if the LE /MIL exceptions or you are excepted because hold a NY license for “pistols and Revolvers” - note the license is only for “pistols and revolvers” not “firearms.”

This meets the federal definition of an “other firearm” and does not seem to meet the NY definitions of Firearm, pistol, rifle, or assault weapon. The NY definition of an assault weapon is based on the starting point of it being a type of rifle, shotgun or pistol and this is none of the three.

3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the
barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
firearm.

11. "Rifle" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and
intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic
cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger.
12. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade,
and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned
and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun
shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a
single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

22. "Assault weapon" means
(a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a thumbhole stock;
(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(v) a bayonet mount;
(vi) a flash suppressor, muzzle break, muzzle compensator, or threaded
barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or
muzzle compensator;
(vii) a grenade launcher; or
(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least one of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of seven rounds;
(v) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock;
(iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the
non-trigger hand;
(iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the
pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the non-trigger hand without being burned;
(vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded; or
(viii) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or
firearm;
(d) a revolving cylinder shotgun;
(e) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in subparagraph (v) of paragraph (e) of
subdivision twenty-two of section 265.00 of this chapter as added by
chapter one hundred eighty-nine of the laws of two thousand and
otherwise lawfully possessed pursuant to such chapter of the laws of two
thousand prior to September fourteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four;
(f) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or weapon defined in paragraph (a), (b) or (c) of this
subdivision, possessed prior to the date of enactment of the chapter of
the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph;
(g) provided, however, that such term does not include:
(i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by
bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently
inoperable; or (C) is an antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C.
921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine; or
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to 18 U.S.C. 922 as such weapon was manufactured
on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere fact that a
weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to mean that
such weapon is an assault weapon;
(v) any weapon validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter. Such weapons shall be subject to the
provisions of paragraph (h) of this subdivision;
(vi) any firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least
fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas
thereof that is validly registered pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of
section 400.00 of this chapter;
(h) Any weapon defined in paragraph (e) or (f) of this subdivision and
any large capacity ammunition feeding device that was legally possessed
by an individual prior to the enactment of the chapter of the laws of
two thousand thirteen which added this paragraph, may only be sold to,
exchanged with or disposed of to a purchaser authorized to possess such
weapons or to an individual or entity outside of the state provided that
any such transfer to an individual or entity outside of the state must
be reported to the entity wherein the weapon is registered within
seventy-two hours of such transfer. An individual who transfers any such
weapon or large capacity ammunition device to an individual inside New
York state or without complying with the provisions of this paragraph
shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor unless such large capacity
ammunition feeding device, the possession of which is made illegal by
the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this
paragraph, is transferred within one year of the effective date of the
chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which added this paragrap

265.01-b Criminal possession of a firearm.
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm when he or she:
(1) possesses any firearm or; (2) lawfully possesses a firearm prior to
the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen
which added this section subject to the registration requirements of
subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter and knowingly
fails to register such firearm pursuant to such subdivision.
Criminal possession of a firearm is a class E felony.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

CT shops are making a killing selling these "Others" right now. Pretty much every shop has partnered with a different manufacturer to bring in their own version.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The 30 round mag that comes with it, from the web page, isn't SAFE. How much will being the test case if you are charged, going to cost you? Can the gun be submitted for a ruling before people buy these?

[ssb]

I will say that I'm very impressed with my 12.5" upper from them, which is configured similarly.

[John Hearne]

I'm asking because I honestly don't know. What's the story with the vertical foregrip. I thought that two pistol grips on a pistol made the item an AOW under ATF guidelines. All the AR pistol stuff I've seen advises against vertical foregrips.

[joshs]

I'm asking because I honestly don't know. What's the story with the vertical foregrip. I thought that two pistol grips on a pistol made the item an AOW under ATF guidelines. All the AR pistol stuff I've seen advises against vertical foregrips.

Only if it's less than 26" in overall length.

[WobblyPossum]

If one of these is actually legal in NY state, I hope SOLGW sells every single one they make. What’s the current magazine limit for a semiautomatic non-handgun in NY? 5 rounds, 10 rounds? I’d rather have 10 rounds of 5.56 per magazine to defend myself in my home than 10 rounds of any handgun caliber.

[HCM]

I'm asking because I honestly don't know. What's the story with the vertical foregrip. I thought that two pistol grips on a pistol made the item an AOW under ATF guidelines. All the AR pistol stuff I've seen advises against vertical foregrips.

I was thinking the same thing but since it is > 26' OAL it is not a pistol or AOW.