RFI Surefire X300U and 600 scouts

[EJO]

I need the opinion from some of you who have run older Surefire X300u and M600 scouts. I’ve read several threads and it seems candela is an important factor when considering a light but so is lumens.

I currently use a 600 lumen scout light on my patrol rifle and a 600 lumen x300u on my patrol pistol. Both lights are listed as 16,500 candela. I’ve been contemplating upgrading to the 1,000 lumen model of both lights. My concern is they are listed at 11,300 candela. Obviously 1,000 lumens is going to be brighter. I’m thinking the newer versions probably have more spill. Will the newer versions have less throw? Why the lower candela? Hell my old TLR1-HLs are only 800 lumen but rated at 15,000 candela. I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around these new Surefires. Are they much of an upgrade in the end?

[fwrun]

Depends on what your responsibilities are, and where your AO is. Are you a city cop? Rural deputy? American Security?

I upgraded to the M600DF last summer, and recently upgraded to the 1k lumen X300U. They are both pretty nice lights. Whether or not it's worth it is hard to say though. If you are planning to pay more than $400 for the two lights, probably not worth it. If you flip your lights to recoup some of the damage, it may be worth taking a look at. I don't need to PID at 400 yards with my pistol light. As a cop, it is supremely unlikely I will need to PID at 400 with a rifle either, we have no sky scrapers around here, and a whole lot of hills and trees.

I know with the OWL coming out, lumens are last season and candela is so hot right now, but a touch (i.e. not maxvision) of flood isn't necessarily a bad thing on a pistol light.

[BK14]

I have a 600 lumen X300 that I used as my duty light, but upgraded to a 1000 lumen. For my purposes, I work in a moderately medium ish city, with lots of lights, mostly at night. Pistol engagements are typically closer range. For me, I prefer the 1000 over the 600 based off my AO. The little bit wider hotspot still has plenty of throw for pistol use, but the higher output helps punch through vehicle’s tent, and seems to give more info to work with. I justified it by moving my 600 to one of my training guns, so I could keep the round count down on my duty gun/duty light. I also carry that gun off duty sometimes, so the 600 still sees use.


For rifles, no experience with the Scout, but look into the Modlight and Owl before jumping into the SF route. The Primary and Secondary page has been tracking quite a few issues with the new DF having reliability issues.

I recently used an OWL to illuminate all of a suspect’s front porch, into his house, and him, allowing us to PID the phone in his hand as a phone and not a gun. While another light would have worked, that OWL was awesome, and really showed it had a great ability to cut past photonic barriers, physical barriers, give a good hot spot, and a useful spill. Amongst a team of 6 guys, my light was the only one used, because it was just so bright more lights in play weren’t needed.

[karmapolice]

So I ran the original X300 (even have some old X200s) and was an early adopter to the X300U in 2012/2013 I don't remember exactly what year but I remember the first time I used it on night shift and definitely appreciated the difference from my older X300. I also utilized the older 600 series scout lights as well but I upgraded to the Duel Fuels when they were released and the 1k lumen X300U. The performance is indeed better and I really appreciate the beam patters on both the scout and u boat in their perspective roles (carbine and pistol). I remember the first time I used the Duel Fuel Scout on a search warrant entry and it worked very well.

A caveat for me is that I generally run CR123's in the duel fuel as rechargeable batteries are less useful to me as a Deputy/Peace Officer, that being said even then the newer scout is most definitely an upgrade to my older 600's (500 lumens). Most issues people are having is running older tail caps that run a tape switch etc vs the clicky tail cap, if you run the click tail cap there has been no issues. I also know for those who like the 18650 rechargeable Surefire has updated/upgraded the ones they sell and include with the Duel Fuel Scouts now.

My issue with the OWL light and some of the others that only take rechargeable batteries is that I have on more than one occasion found myself with a dying flashlight in the field and was able to just throw in new CR123's that I keep on me at all times at work. Also I'm paranoid and if I'm going to on a search warrant etc. I put fresh batteries in all my lights because I don't want to guess how fresh or used they are.

[BK14]

My issue with the OWL light and some of the others that only take rechargeable batteries is that I have on more than one occasion found myself with a dying flashlight in the field and was able to just throw in new CR123's that I keep on me at all times at work. Also I'm paranoid and if I'm going to on a search warrant etc. I put fresh batteries in all my lights because I don't want to guess how fresh or used they are.

I had similar concerns, but what I’ve done to rectify the issue is really switching platforms. Now, outside of my X300U, all lights on me are rechargeable. My handheld is dual fuel, but I exclusive run 18650 in it. I keep extra batteries that are charged either in my kit, or at the office and just swap out batteries as needed prior to my shift. I think the administrative changes to swap over to 18650 are worth it, but you have to be intentional about how you keep your equipment setup.

[John Hearne]

I can only speak to the X300 question. The upgrade definitely gets you more spill and does not cost you any throw. You actually pickup a little more throw but not as much in ratio to the lumen upgrade.

I buy X300‘s for our duty rifle lights and thought the upgrade was worth it.

[Clark Jackson]

So I ran the original X300 (even have some old X200s) and was an early adopter to the X300U in 2012/2013 I don't remember exactly what year but I remember the first time I used it on night shift and definitely appreciated the difference from my older X300. I also utilized the older 600 series scout lights as well but I upgraded to the Duel Fuels when they were released and the 1k lumen X300U. The performance is indeed better and I really appreciate the beam patters on both the scout and u boat in their perspective roles (carbine and pistol). I remember the first time I used the Duel Fuel Scout on a search warrant entry and it worked very well.

A caveat for me is that I generally run CR123's in the duel fuel as rechargeable batteries are less useful to me as a Deputy/Peace Officer, that being said even then the newer scout is most definitely an upgrade to my older 600's (500 lumens). Most issues people are having is running older tail caps that run a tape switch etc vs the clicky tail cap, if you run the click tail cap there has been no issues. I also know for those who like the 18650 rechargeable Surefire has updated/upgraded the ones they sell and include with the Duel Fuel Scouts now.

My issue with the OWL light and some of the others that only take rechargeable batteries is that I have on more than one occasion found myself with a dying flashlight in the field and was able to just throw in new CR123's that I keep on me at all times at work. Also I'm paranoid and if I'm going to on a search warrant etc. I put fresh batteries in all my lights because I don't want to guess how fresh or used they are.

Dual fuel SF lights are the way to go. I've got dozens of SF lights (and a few other brands) and I always end up going back to SF when it matters. I had an X300U (500 lumen) and a Streamlight TLR1-HL (800 lumen). I was skeptical about going to the X300U (1k lumen) and M600 duel fuel Scout because of the cost. But, like all things worth anything in life I invested some time and money. It was more than worth it.

10/10 the 1k lumen SF X300U and Scout light upgrades are worth it.

Be cautious of candela and lumens. Consumers have more information at their fingertips than ever before in human history. Companies' marketing teams know this and have responded as such. I can probably go to my local big box home improvement store and find a 3k lumen, 12k candela light for under $50... probably. That light is probably super bright, but probably comes no where near the as advertised 3k lumens/12k candela, and 100% it will not work/survive a fraction of a Surefire or Streamlight.

The point is don't get down in the weeds on lumen/candela too much unless it is comparing multiple lights from the same reputable company.

For example: I will get into the weeds on lumen/candela when comparing multiple SF products and that can really matter. Maxvision lights are different from non-Maxvision lights... and that's important stuff to know based on your intended use.

What I will not do is compare SF and Streamlight products using the manufacturer supplied lumen/candela rating and expect it to be apples-to-apples, because it's not. Both reputable companies, but different companies.

And just because I like making the internet mad: Surefire products are superior products.