The Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running

[RJ]

Your plan is traveling cross-country to shoot a match using ammo you'll have vetted with "a couple mags" in a gun tuned for different ammo. If it doesn't work in the abbreviated test period how much vetting are you going to do with the heavier springs / old FPS?

I've left out the rationale/circumstances because they aren't really relevant to the question. We'll be in the area in June anyway. I shot the match in 2022 with a borrowed TGOII and this same ammo, which was suggested by the person who leant me the TGOII. Unfortunately I didn't get there in 2023 or 2024 because:reasons.

There's no real danger of me having a great finish. I'll be lucky to break into the top half of the competitors. If the ammo runs in practice sessions here at home with the gun setup as is (19/17), I'll call it good. I'll shoot a mag or two at the plate rack when I get there. If anything is amiss, I'll shoot the HST I will have brought as backup. Otherwise I'll load up the Winchester and let it rip. The "Stage" is six tables, five pins each, and you get to throw out your worst time. Theoretically I only need 30 rounds.

I don't think the frame or slide is going to have its life considerably shortened by a hundred rounds of factory +P regardless of which of those springs you use.

This is useful, and what I was asking. Thanks.

[SW CQB 45]

would softer shooting flat slugs be better?

I have never shot this event. I would think faster on the sights would be better.

[jh9]

would softer shooting flat slugs be better?

I have never shot this event. I would think faster on the sights would be better.

It took a minute to find, but here is a post where Ned Christiansen builds out his .50 GI pin gun in 2017. There's a rabbit hole to go down there. The rules are such that IIRC hits only really count if they also knock the pin completely off the table. How a person gets there has resulted in a few decades of... creativity.

I have not put a bullet into a bowling pin in going on two decades, and even then that was just locals messing about. Maybe things have changed.

[SW CQB 45]

I watched a few of the videos. The pins were being hit with authority.

I dont know enough about that shooting game to provide an opinion.


any steady diet of +P ammunition will add wear and tear.

When I went to a firearm instructor school at Texas DPS in 2001, they were testing .357 sig and the instructor had a 30K round Sig (I think it was a 229). The pistol looked like it been through hell and back. The slide to frame fit was sloppy at best and the instructor claimed that pistol still shot a tight group.

I shot around 1000 rounds through my alum frame SW PC CQB with DPS practice ammo which was hot, 200 grain very flying ashtray that I believe was +P. I was young back then and recoil was snappy but did not bother me. While my alum frame held up, the tight tolerances were definitely affected.

Guns are made to be shot. I personally would use an 18.5 lbs recoil spring to minimize slide to frame battering.

[SW CQB 45]

What flashlight technique were you using? A “neck/cheek/temple/eye” index, where the light is brought back behind the gun/optic has the potential of (channeling Aaron Cowan) creating a photonic barrier where the reflection (even with some minimal spill from the light) prevents seeing through the window.

I haven’t experienced the same when the hand held light is emitted in front of the optic.

… and a P.S. - I think I may have said it before but I absolutely love the pics over time of your duty gun. It’s one of my absolute favorite duty 1911s. I wish I had one with that much character, but I apparently have a problem with gun commitment and I switch too much to put that much wear and awesomeness into one gun.

I spoke to another officer who experienced the same phenomenon with his handheld light.

I am helping out on last night of low light training.

I hope to run another qual using a different light hold and note any results.

[SW CQB 45]

Well HELL

I tried to duplicate the blacked out optic window prior to running another qual and could not duplicate it.

I ran the qual with zero issues using a handheld light on the one-handed stage.

I should have just run it without practice.

[60167]

Well HELL

I tried to duplicate the blacked out optic window prior to running another qual and could not duplicate it.

I ran the qual with zero issues using a handheld light on the one-handed stage.

I should have just run it without practice.

I'm not saying that you didn't experience it, but I've never been able to re-create this phenomenon. I've heard of a handful of people report this sort of thing through the course of numerous classes and qualifications, but it's like one person in 500 or so who have had it happen once and not able to re-create it again. It's got to be the accumulation of several different factors.

[SW CQB 45]

I'm not saying that you didn't experience it, but I've never been able to re-create this phenomenon. I've heard of a handful of people report this sort of thing through the course of numerous classes and qualifications, but it's like one person in 500 or so who have had it happen once and not able to re-create it again. It's got to be the accumulation of several different factors.

I might have foiled the repeat by dry practicing, thinking about the light hold and making small adjustments.

when I ran the second qual, there was a bit of disappointment that I could see the target, my dot and through the optic window with the gun in either hand.

I still used neck hold light position.

So, I just pressed the trigger.

[SW CQB 45]

One other thing to note.

When I first got my MCOP, (after 2008) I recall it ran fine with original CMC PM 10 round mags.

Through the years, something with the 10s changed with my MCOP. Even with the new factory barrel, still the same.

The only 10s I had - CMC PM, WC and CMC Railed PM.

Always first round fails to feed.
Either the round stops on the feed ramp (99% of the time, I bumped the base of the mag and it will go into battery),
or the round flipped pointed up (a failure. I have to admin clear it)

99.9% if the time, if the slide is to the rear, I use the slide stop to drop the slide.
if the slide is forward, traditional racking of the slide.

It does not matter if the slide is to the rear or forward... I experience first round fail either way.

I got rid of all my 10 round mags except for 4 CMC RPM 10s.

I will not use my 10s on duty for that reason.

I did use my 10s for the past week's low light training as the drills were 10 round increments. I heard at least two of the four mags want to hiccup upon chambering, and I think of my many chamberings over this past week, I had one where the top round flipped up (failed to feed) and probably 5 or so where I bumped the base of the mag and it chambered.

I do not have the same issue with 8s.

Rob Schauland told me my MCOP is on the edge of tolerance measurements on some areas.

I do recall that I used to have a major failure where my MCOP was tied up (locked) with original 8 round CMC PMs and factory ball ammo (only during competition, round in the mag, bullet started to chamber, mag locked, slide locked) Since it was competition only, I was not able to diagnose as I spent my few seconds trying to clear. I was using a Gen 1, 10-8 Slide Stop and Hilton Yam suggested likely tolerance stacking and suggested I try his Gen 2 slide stop. It never happened again after that.

Could it be that a factory fresh 1911 shot to the point where tolerances are at the edge and issues with 10 rounds mags rears its ugly head?

anyone else with a 45 single stack that has first round 10 round mag issues?

[03RN]

Can I shoot two boxes of Winchester RA45TP 230 through my 1911? According to Winchester, this round is 990 fps and 501 ft lbs at the muzzle.

Pistol is a Springfield Armory Garrison, 5", .45 ACP. It is a range gun. It currently has a 19# Hammer spring and Wilson flat-wire 17# recoil spring. I replaced the SA FPS with a slightly-radiused Wilson square bottom Firing Pin Stop. It runs both Federal American Eagle 230 FMJ normal pressure 230 HST fine. Magazines are Wilson ETM HD/+p, sku #500C-HD, 8 rounds.

Gun is at 1,699 rounds, including a small jewel box of 20 rounds of Hornady XTP+p (950 fps). My recollection of the Hornady was that while it was a bit spicy, nothing out of the ordinary happened when I shot it. Popped my hand a bit more, perhaps.


The reason for the question is I bought 100 rounds of this Winchester to use at next year's Pin Shoot at Central Lake Michigan, and would like to run it at that match. I want to shoot a couple mags before hand, to confirm it cycles, and maybe the plate rack at the practice area when I get there, but I'm not going to shoot a steady diet of this stuff. Once I get done with the match, I'll go back to regular loads.

My option, if this plan it not advisable, is to put a 23 lb hammer spring in, and install a Wilson 18.5 recoil spring. But I'd rather not take the gun apart, just to shoot this small number of rounds, if I don't really need to.

Ammo for reference.
Attachment 125949

You're not going to hurt the gun