The Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running

[Street Survival]

This thread reminds me that if you want to keep your commander running, the first step is to not buy one from Les Baer

"Amen to that". Buy nothing from him, if you're smart.

[WilsonCombatRep]

On the topic of magazines...

Be careful with the extended mag tubes such as the ETM when taken in combination with plastic baseplates. I've had "over insertion" issues with these when running the gun hard, especially doing slide lock reloads. The flex in the plastic base plate and the length of the tube allow the magazine feed lips to pop up just enough to scrape the bottom of the slide and hang the gun up. The exact same mags with metal base plates solve the problem. I've seen the same thing happen with CMC Powermags when pushed really hard.

My preferred magazine is the Wilson 47C (7 round with steel low profile base plate). I've yet to find a gun they don't work well in.

One some 1911's the frontstrap is so thin after checkering that it creates a chisel that will effectively get between the basepad and the tube and allow over insertion. This is more common on guns built on Colts and Springfield frames but some of our older WC guns have this "feature" as well. I prefer to use metal baseplate 1911 mags for hard use guns. That's just me.

[FNFAN]

"Amen to that". Buy nothing from him, if you're smart.

I don't know if I'd go that far -lots of folks swear by his guns, but I do know one of the better pistolsmiths resolves the problem with his commander size guns by re-machining the frame to commander specs.

[HCM]

"Amen to that". Buy nothing from him, if you're smart.

He is a cranky, opinionated old man who can be an asshole. That is also an apt description of most of the high end 1911 world so following your advice wouldn’t leave many people to buy 1911s from.

He is also pretty good at what he does and makes good 5” guns.

[RevolverRob]

Since it has come up:

Here is what an inertia/push feed looks like (easily induced in a 1911 with a Wilson mag, just cycle the slide slowly). Here the cartridge has popped loose of the magazine and not slipped under the rim of the extractor. Now the moment/inertia of the slide must cause the extractor to snap over the cartridge rim. This causes a lot of wear on extractors and is probably the leading cause of extractor issues:



Here is what it should look like when proper controlled feeding has happened. The magazine supports the cartridge such that the rim slides up under the extractor long before battery is achieved. This is my STI, and this is a dummy ST Action Pro training round that's being chambered here (safety first!):

[RevolverRob]

Section ALL:

Okay, I spent some time experimenting to figure out how to best capture this in pictures (it isn't easy, because it happens quickly and I needed it to happen in "stages".

First let's see proper controlled feeding:

Here, I've released the slide and the cartridge has begun feeding. This may seem "far along" in the process, because the rim is now clear of the feed lips, but 2011 magazines and the 9mm ones, in particular, have very short feed lips (and this one has a spacer in it to take up some of the length), so this is about the same amount of slide movement as the 1911 below. Regardless, once the rim is clear of the feedlips it should cam up and begin to slide under the extractor.


As soon as the round has begun to enter the chamber, the barrel is tipping back up, and the rim slides right up under the extractor almost completely. At this point, if you stop and retract the slide, the extractor will hold onto enough of the rim to hold it until it bumps the ejector.


Now, just before the slide returns fully to battery, you can see that the rim is underneath the extractor entirely, with a very small amount of space between the extractor and rim and the rim and breech-face. There is plenty of tension in this extractor and the spacing is perfect, we don't actually want an extremely tight fit, here, because that can cause ejection problems. Instead, we want enough tension to hold the cartridge against the breechface without being loose, but not so firm, we can't "thump it" loose.


Now let's see inertia/push feeding:

So, here is my Kimber at full slide lock. I want to note here, this is a Kimber magazine, not a Wilson. But it has relatively short wadcutter-type feed lips (in fact, by minute-of-eyeball measurements, they are about the same length as Wilsons).


Here I have released the slide and started moving it forward. Again, this is about the same amount of slide movement as the 9mm 2011 above, but the .45 ACP is a longer OAL cartridge and the magazine has longer feed lips. Here, the cartridge has begun moving forward and has actually hit the bottom of the feedramp. Remember, I'm trying to induce an inertia feed here, so, I've let it "jam" the nose into the feed ramp, by letting the slide out very slow.

This is where JHPs typically jam in old school fashion, particularly from GI-spec magazines. Why? Because the GI-spec magazines have much longer feed lips than wadcutter style and they hold the cartridge longer, not allowing it to be pushed up and chambered sooner. Of course, by holding the cartridge longer, this steadies the feeding cycle, this also increases the chances that the rim will slip under the extractor, neatly. The sooner the cartridge releases from the feed lips, the narrower the window of timing for the rim to slide underneath the extractor and proper feeding to occur.


And now, by slowing this way down, I've caused the cartridge to pop free of the magazine, before the rim was properly underneath the extractor. Resulting in a loose cartridge, which I must slam the slide over to get the extractor to pop over the rim.


___

Okay, so WTF does all that mean? Well, if everything is timed properly, in general a 1911 will feed almost any ammo from any magazine where the feed lips are in spec and magazine springs don't suck. If you're experiencing feeding issues and you're confident your magazine springs are good and feed lips aren't mucked up, first change the recoil and mainspring and try again (when one or both get weak, that will change the timing). If that doesn't resolve it, it's time to look deeper.

A lot of times, guns won't show signs of inertia/push feeding until the extractor begins to fail. If you're getting erratic extraction/ejection issues, or problems with returning to battery and the gun is relatively clean, lubed, and has a good recoil spring, you have a timing problem and it's time to look deeper.

[M2CattleCo]

Barrel fit is 100% of timing on a 1911. Springs can change the speed that some things happen at, but the timing is the same regardless. That's why 1911s will run on any reasonable combo of springs.

[entropy]

RR,

Thanks for the edumication.

Per a previous post of mine, sorting out details prior to a 1911 purchase. In the meantime, toying with an older SA Champion. The gun has always had on/off feeding issues. Without digging too deep, this will help me do some troubleshooting.

Any particular mags more suited towards the ramped Champion barrels?

[M2CattleCo]

^ Something with a very strong spring.

[RevolverRob]

RR,

Any particular mags more suited towards the ramped Champion barrels?

Concur with M2CattleCo on this one, something with a strong spring. If you have mags with questionable springs, but good lips, it might be worth getting some of the Tripp Super 7 kits and rebuilding them and trying that. Particularly 8-rounders that have issues.

Otherwise, Wilson ETM +P (item number 500C-HD) or Tripp Cobra Mags.