No matter how long it has been I can pick up a 1911 or 2011 in 9mm or .45 and qualify high 90%. With a glock if I haven't been practicing a lot with it, I struggle to get to 85 to 90%. With ammo shortages and our range situation changing I would rather carry a gun that requires a bit more maintenance to insure I hit what I am aiming at. I also prefer to carry a 1911/2011 off duty as they conceal a lot easier than a glock.
Originally Posted by JohnK
I'm switching my EDC from a much loved 9mm P2000 to a 9mm 1911; I practice 1-2 times/week with my full-size 1911 and I've realized the value that familiarity would play in an SD situation. I have Kimber HD Pro Carry II to use temporarily, but am looking for a lightweight as my new EDC (Dawson ECP, Staccato C DPO, ...).
I'm absolutely in the same boat, in that switching meant all the shooting with 1911s I was already doing for fun is also now directly applicable practice for what I carry.
For me.... it all changed in 2008 when Admin changed. Prior to 2008, only Glock/similar models and DA first shot was allowed.
Prior Admin, I recall sitting in a liability LEO class and the chief was to my right. The instructorwas going through a laundry list of topics that could cause liability issues. When he got to guns..... he brought up 1911 and said the trigger was dangerous and to stay away from them. The chief turned his head to me and said you will never carry a 1911 on duty as long as he was chief. He was actually a good guy and throwing rocks at me because he knew I favored that particular firearm.
In 2008, that chief retired and a buddy (partner in Narcs and INV) promoted to AC and came to me asking if I wanted to carry 1911 on duty and to write policy.
Out of 126 LEOs, I am the only one packing a 1911 style pistol. Why..... I think its a cool piece, I like its quirkiness, I like the history behind it. My friend (who is a Sheriff now) has collected Colts and has his great grandfathers 1911 (IIRC its from 1918) that he occasionally packs. Someone asked him in a meeting... is that gun cocked? Of course my friend is quick on his feet.... said Yes, since 1918..
I have been to Colt and 10-8 Armorer and I like the platform. I am fully aware that Admin can say no and it goes away. So I dont make too much "noise" about it except at the range. HA!
if they make me carry my issued G5G19.... I wont be mad. its been a good run.
To follow up on the MCOP Gen1 I sent to Springer. Hmmmmm, never got an email. Their phone system is down and the email I sent to them was returned as a failed attempt.
If you're going to be a bear….be a GRIZZLY!
Try:For me.... it all changed in 2008 when Admin changed. Prior to 2008, only Glock/similar models and DA first shot was allowed.
Prior Admin, I recall sitting in a liability LEO class and the chief was to my right. The instructor
In 2008, that chief retired and a buddy (partner in Narcs and INV) promoted to AC and came to me asking if I wanted to carry 1911 on duty and to write policy.
Out of 126 LEOs, I am the only one packing a 1911 style pistol. Why..... I think its a cool piece, I like its quirkiness, I like the history behind it. My friend (who is a Sheriff now) has collected Colts and has his great grandfathers 1911 (IIRC its from 1918) that he occasionally packs. Someone asked him in a meeting... is that gun cocked? Of course my friend is quick on his feet.... said Yes, since 1918..
I have been to Colt and 10-8 Armorer and I like the platform. I am fully aware that Admin can say no and it goes away. So I dont make too much "noise" about it except at the range. HA!
if they make me carry my issued G5G19.... I wont be mad. its been a good run.
To follow up on the MCOP Gen1 I sent to Springer. Hmmmmm, never got an email. Their phone system is down and the email I sent to them was returned as a failed attempt.
Penne B | Customer Service Team Leader
Springfield Armory®
420 West Main Street
Geneseo, IL 61254
800-680-6866 Ext 8972
penneb@springfield-armory.com
www.springfield-armory.com
You can also try:
Cassie J | Customer Service
Springfield Armory®
420 West Main Street
Geneseo, IL 61254
800-680-6866 Ext 8937
cassiej@springfield-armory.com
www.springfield-armory.com
"... And miles to go before I sleep".
I noticed a similar thing, in 2007, after my one remaining 1911 had been put away since 2002, and again in 2012. My accuracy remained amazingly good, and everything about the manual of arms also remained good, after these two five-year intervals of being away from the 1911. My ability to shoot fast and accurate splits and controlled pairs, had, of course, diminished. That took some time to recover, when I resumed using my 1911, in 2012. The qual I fired in 2012 was not actually scored, as the 1911 was not eligible to again be a primary duty pistol, but I was happy with the aggregate group.
The remaining is Too-Long, Don’t-Read:
I had gotten away from using the 1911 in April 2002, because the then-mandated duty holster, the Safariland 070 (a.k.a. SS III) inhibited attaining a proper firing grip, which was bad enough, on its own, but, even worse, meant that my aging, skinny hand, which was getting skinnier, was tending to fail to press into the grip safety sufficiently. I reluctantly decided to let my grandfathered 1911 duty pistols lapse, and transition to one of the four authorized duty pistols, which were all wide-body, double-column-mag, and .40 S&W. First up was the G22. I bought two of them, and decided to go all-in. That lasted until late 2004, when I discovered the optional thinner trigger, available in the SIG P229, and bought a P229 DAK. My first qual with the P229 DAK, which was also the first time I had fired it, was far better than my best Glock score, in more than 2.5 years of trying.
Notably, DAK was my choice. Not only did I not fear the DA shot, but liked all of them to be DA. Most of my colleagues who chose to carry SIG duty pistols chose DA/SA, but, notably, some of the heavy-hitters, in Narcotics Division, embraced DAK.
In 2007, noticing that it had been five years since I had fired a 1911, I took my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special to a local indoor range, and fired groups at bullseye targets. My accuracy was still decent.
In 2012, when I next fired my Baer, it was to see if, and how much, it would hurt my hand. By age fifty, in late 2011, my high-bore-axis, wide-body, aluminum-alloy-framed P229R DAK was, with the energetic .40 S&W cartridge, creating the perfect storm of pain in my arthritic right thumb, hand, and wrist. A lower-bore-axis, narrower-body, all-steel, full-sized 1911 was, thankfully, found to be amazingly “orthopedic.” Thankfully, I also found that my accuracy potential remained high, and that I could quickly train for acceptable accuracy, while shooting relatively quickly. A 1911 could not be my duty pistol again, but it would resume being my personal-time carry weapon, ending my personal ideal of being all-in with only one auto-pistol system, on and off the clock. I would train for DAK with my low-recoil S&W Model 17-4, get my auto-pistol reps in with the 1911, and only fire my P229R DAK duty pistol 60 rounds, once a year, for the mandated qual. Unusual, but, it worked. This continued for several more years, until 2015, when my chief OK’ed 9mm duty pistols, and I returned to Glock, with the Gen4 G17. Gen4 was a much better fit, in my hands, than my previous Gen3 G22 duty pistols had been.
Then, at the end of 2015, the chief, as a parting gift, before he retired, re-authorized the 1911 as a primary duty pistol, 9mm, .40, and .45 ACP, for officers willing to attend the mandated transition class. By then, the standard-issue duty holster was the Safariland 6360, which did not interfere with attaining a proper firing grip. Life was already good, but it became better.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
1. Fit. I do not have to fight against nature, to make it work for me, if a weapon fits my hand. Part of it is my I do not have long thumbs, to match my long hands, so, wide-body pistols are less-secure, when I grip them. This is especially important when the support hand has other, real-world things to do.
2. Accuracy potential. Related to fit, of course, but some 1911 pistols are more accurate than others. There is a reason that three of my four 1911 pistols are Les Baer. When I retired, two of those Baers were on my “qual card.” I did not yet own the third Baer.
3. Low bore axis. Herr Glock did not pioneer the concept of a low bore axis. I don’t know who made the first low-bore-axis pistol, but John Browning understood, by the early 20th Century. Relieving the front strap, and trigger guard, where they meet, which was a later development, made the 1911 an even better fit, for me.
4. The thumb safety might make a snatched 1911 more difficult to use, against me.
5. See my previous post, just above this one, for more details.
Notice that I did not mention the single-action trigger. I am actually perfectly content with long-stroke double-action, for duty and personal-time carry. Before I joined Houston PD, in Texas, in 1983, I owned a 1911, and thought revolvers were quaint. I had to train with an L-Frame, in the academy, however, and during my first year of sworn service, was required to use only DA revolvers, (plus, optionally, three specified shotguns) for defense of self and others, 24/7/365. So, I made the diligent effort to learn long-stroke DA, and learned to love it.
The 1911 is not perfect. I am OK toting revolvers, for most defensive carry, today. One strike against 1911 pistols is that I struggled, for years, to find a reliable compact 1911, up to and including a Wilson Combat Sentinel. I threw-in that towel, about 20 years ago. Full-sized, 5” 1911 pistols, now, for me. Period. But, they can be a challenge for my aging shoulder and wrist joints, to draw from an inside-the-trousers holster, or a high-ride outside the belt rig, so, I normally only carry a 1911 when I am wearing a long cover garment, or when I do not need to concern myself with concealment.
Last edited by Rex G; 03-18-2021 at 12:50 PM.
Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.
Don’t tread on volcanos!
And I'm very grateful you did. I picked up my first 1911 (S&W performace center, it's schmancy) last week and only then realized how much I didn't know. I've been though this thread once and will undoubtedly be referring back to it... a lot. Thanks for everyone's contributions.
And, holy crap, that trigger!
I have a 5" Springfield Loaded 45acp. When I first acquired the pistol (2008) I replaced the ILS with a curved backstrap. I also have a DW A2. To compare trigger pulls, I put a 21 pound mainspring in each. I know other mods can affect a trigger pull. I just wanted to have the same hammer spring in each with everything else as it left the factory.
The DW A2 trigger pull remained the same. I don't have a trigger gauge, but it is light enough for range use, but for me, not carry. On the other hand, the SA trigger pull was just heavy enough for carry without disturbing ones sight picture when fired. The SA trigger pull weight came from the factory a little heaver that the DW. Both were 100% reliable in all aspects. I would just feel better carrying the SA with a wee bit heavier trigger to avoid an oops moment. Both triggers break cleanly.
So why did I do this? The human condition to tinker, to improve the breed. Probably a bit bored too. Anyway, my curiosity was satisfied.
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