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Thread: The Art and Science of Keeping Your 1911 Running

  1. #641
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    What’s the general feeling about Officer models? I know the CCO idea has taken off and then you’ve got the EMPs but is there still a place for the OACP?

    I had a 9mm Defender for a short while and wound up not caring for it. Is there a major difference between the Defender and OACP?
    The biggest difference between the Defender and the Officer's ACP is not the extra half-inch of barrel in the latter. The latter also has a bushing barrel with a thin flange to lock into the slide. The Officer's ACP has been known to have the bushing shear the flange, sending the entire recoil system downrange. The shorter slide uses a stronger spring and assembly of the Defender can be a PITA as the slide stop has to be installed while aligning the notch in the slide with the slide under spring pressure.

    After trying more Officer's ACP and Defender pistols that I care to admit, my considered conclusion is nothing shorter than four-inches for me. That being said, I only have three 1911-pattern pistols in the safe with shorter than five-inch barrels. One is Commander-length with a bushing barrel and two are four-inch bull barrels.

  2. #642
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    Edge of my lane

    IMHO, it is more art than science to keep a 1911 style pistol under 4ish inches running to the point that you can bet your life on it in less than ideal circumstances. I base this on the 100+ 1911 collections of my first few shooting mentors who started training with Cooper in the 70s-80s.

    If I was going to run such a beast, I would figure out what mag and load it liked. I will change my springs on it every 500 rds and keep notes on this pistol to track any issues.
    I know a number of shooters who have done this and still could not keep such pistols running to the point of even carrying them in a ankle or just to the store around the corner role such that they always went back to a j-frame etc.
    I am not your attorney. I am not giving legal advice. Any and all opinions expressed are personal and my own and are not those of any employer-past, present or future.

  3. #643
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    The biggest difference between the Defender and the Officer's ACP is not the extra half-inch of barrel in the latter. The latter also has a bushing barrel with a thin flange to lock into the slide. The Officer's ACP has been known to have the bushing shear the flange, sending the entire recoil system downrange. The shorter slide uses a stronger spring and assembly of the Defender can be a PITA as the slide stop has to be installed while aligning the notch in the slide with the slide under spring pressure.

    After trying more Officer's ACP and Defender pistols that I care to admit, my considered conclusion is nothing shorter than four-inches for me. That being said, I only have three 1911-pattern pistols in the safe with shorter than five-inch barrels. One is Commander-length with a bushing barrel and two are four-inch bull barrels.
    I came to the same conclusion-that on anything less than a Commander-length slide/barrel, the juice simply wasn't worth the squeeze. The maintenance (especially the 500 round recoil spring replacement interval) and the abbreviated path of operation just struck me as pushing Browning's 1911 design to the far edge of the envelope. And frankly, getting a Commander to the apex of reliabiity can be a bit of a challenge, too. That's why Hilton Yam strongly recommends for any organizational use sticking with the 5" Government platform.

    Unless I was totally wedded to the 1911 platform, in a compact .45 ACP I'd just go to a compact or sub-compact Glock or HK et al, and call it good. Either are well vetted, durable, relable, and low maintenance platforms, well suited to EDC.

    Best, Jon

  4. #644
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reality check on the shorties. I knew their appetite for recoil springs were one reason I didn’t stick with the Defender but I’d forgotten about the finickiness of the sub-4” models.

    And thanks to my hands and wrists anything less than a 5” steel frame is either 9 or .38 Super.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  5. #645
    I’m not a big fan of 1911’s under 4.25”, however, I’ve had Dan Wesson ECO’s (3.5” barrel) in .45 and 9mm. They both ran great, and the 9mm was a lot of fun. They use a flat recoil spring...I think the spring on the .45 is supposed to be good for 15,000 rounds.

    If I was going to buy another Officer’s Model, I’d be looking at DW or Wilson.


  6. #646
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    when I graduated the police academy in 1988, my dad bought me this brand new.

    The very first shot out of it my recoil springs and recoil spring retainer went flying. So 1 shot and it went to Kings Gun Works in Cali for their barrel bushing and recoil spring guide rod.

    In the 90s, I shot the hell out of this thing and it was with me alot. Other than the first shot mishap....I dont ever recall it hiccuping.

    Something else I did to this piece was alot of backyard gunsmith, beavertail grip safety, high front strap, magwell opening. I over cut the beavertail fit, so it always had a sloppy fit. In the late 90s, I wanted another gun but did not have any money so my dad said to sell the COACP, so it was put on consignment locally and someone bought it.

    My dad passed in 2005 and I wished I never had sold it. I went back to the dealer some years later asking if he recalled my COACP and the buyer. He remembered my piece but needed a month and a year to go check his records. I could only recall late 90s or even into the early 2000s. I gave up on looking for it.

    About 6 months later, I got a call from the dealer saying he went into his records to look for something and when he opened a box, my COACP paperwork was not filed, just laying on top of the files. He had the pistol in his possession but the cost was more than what I sold it for. I did not care but was disappointed when I saw it as the owner did not care for it cosmetically as it had a lot of scratches and one heavy gouge where a rivet from Wrangler jeans dug into the slide flat.

    I bought it back and later starting communicating with Rob at the original ACW. We agreed to some welding, modern sights and refinish.

    This was it before I sent it to Rob I believe in 2013.



    I had to cut some of my project requests due to lack of funds. I wished I could go back in time, eat potted meat and vienna sausages for a year to pay for front strap checkering. My intention were to send it back to ACW when I had the money and have them finish the checkering but he closed shop to run Cabot Guns.

    This is the gun today. Rob tightened the sloppy Colt barrel and slide to frame fit (HA.... maybe thats why it ran so good). They re welded the frame and re cut the beavertail grip safety.

    I shot it when I got it back and it shoots good with 230 FMJ, but parked it for its sentimental value.



    I still want to get it checkered and was hoping JT Timmons would do it but last I heard he is not taking any work. He did a nice Pete Singletary 25 LPI for me on another 1911 and I wanted that for this piece.

    here is the ACW glamour shot

    Last edited by SW CQB 45; 12-04-2020 at 07:54 PM.
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  7. #647
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    I would say that if I were to go the 9mm 1911 route, I've repeatedly heard that the Commander route provides good results; I think even better than a Goveernment 9mm, I believe due to the Commander's increased slide velocity.. Someone here more versed in 9mm's hopefully will comment.

    Best, Jon

  8. #648

    S&W M&P 45 1.0 4" barrel 8 round mag

    I have the above referenced pistol and specifically for its configuration. It is a modern design from the jump with a 4" barrel 45 acp compact. It is reliable with all ammo shot so far. I don't have to try various magazines to see which ones work. If I have a problem, I send it back to the factory. The problem is that a similar sized pistol in 9mm will add maybe 50% more capacity. And that is a pretty compelling reason to consider a 9mm.

    For the 1911, I like the 5" barrel models in 45. And that is a personal choice. One day I may venture into the Commander sized 1911. It's faintingly tugging at my heart. No rush to get one but I am intrigued.

  9. #649
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    I’m not a big fan of 1911’s under 4.25”, however, I’ve had Dan Wesson ECO’s (3.5” barrel) in .45 and 9mm. They both ran great, and the 9mm was a lot of fun. They use a flat recoil spring...I think the spring on the .45 is supposed to be good for 15,000 rounds.

    If I was going to buy another Officer’s Model, I’d be looking at DW or Wilson.

    Dammit, now I need to go find that ECO I took off my watch list!
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    I would say that if I were to go the 9mm 1911 route, I've repeatedly heard that the Commander route provides good results; I think even better than a Goveernment 9mm, I believe due to the Commander's increased slide velocity.. Someone here more versed in 9mm's hopefully will comment.

    Best, Jon
    When I was trying to make the 9mm 1911 thing work for me, I owned several Commander and Government size guns over several years. I did not see a big difference in reliability or accuracy in my guns. For me, the Lightweight Commander 9mm was the sweet spot though -- just a really nice package all around. But I tired of chasing perfectly reliable function and moved on. The newer 9mm guns coming from makers like Dan Wesson, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, etc... may be better in terms of reliable function, but I have no plans to go down that road again. With 45 and 38 Super I don't have to be so concerned with magazine selection, ammo selection, recoil spring selection, ejector size and shape, etc...

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