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Thread: Decision matrix around what and how you carry in Synagogue/Church/Mosque

  1. #41
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    But crisis rehearsal (if/then thinking) can be useful to prepare yourself to respond to the unexpected.

  2. #42
    This a great thread and gives me some additional things to think about as I am putting together an emergency plan for our church and organizing a security team for our small country church. We are way out in the boonies and depending on the day, police response time to our area could be measured in hours. Our normal church attendance is under 100.

    I carry everywhere and what I carry depends on where I am going. I carry a jframe in NPE and a P2000SK everywhere else. Church is not an NPE.

    At church, I carry a P2000SK in a JMCK Universal at 1:00. I also carry a spare mag, Streamlight ProTac 1L-1AA, Clinch Pick and pocket knife. I am working on figuring out how to carry my TQ. We are also looking at 2-way radios for the security team and classrooms. I'm looking at the Blackbox Pocket radios as they are super low-profile and having been working great for me. Not quite sure how to incorporate ear buds without everyone wondering why I have a curly Q clear cord running out of my ear.

    We are a very laid back country church. It is abnormal to see a guy in a full out suit. Totally normal to see someone in jeans and a T-shirt. I usually wear jeans and an untucked button down collared shirt. Easy to conceal the P2000SK in AIWB.

    Shootability is paramount. Concealability is a necessity but I doubt anyone would get riled up if they spotted a gun on me. Comfort is not super important for me but I'd rather be as comfortable as possible....hence the JMCK gear.


    I know this is a very small part of a huge complex system, but I have been working on transitioning my engrained high compressed ready position to a high port ready position. I started thinking about this after having kids as I don't want to be investigating the bump in the night while aiming my muzzle at the ground where my daughter might be. We have lots of kids at the church also. My house nor my church have an upstairs. Just something to consider. I'd certainly be interested in others thoughts on this.
    Last edited by Irelander; 05-13-2019 at 12:47 PM.
    "Don't get me started on how coddled the modern anus is." -Dwight K. Shrute

  3. #43
    Foppish Dandy Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff22 View Post
    But crisis rehearsal (if/then thinking) can be useful to prepare yourself to respond to the unexpected.
    In a FOF class, one scenario had them firing AK blanks in the other room. Students did not know this was going to happen. When you're focused on This Guy And Only This Guy, that's a real brake check.

    Now imagine this in church. You see the shooter, but now there's shots behind you. Is it a second shooter? A church member? A church member shooting at a second shooter?

  4. #44
    Foppish Dandy Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    To answer OP's questions, I carry:

    • Glock 17 or 19 (whichever I feel like that day)
    • 2 spare mags (normally I just carry one)
    • flashlight (currently Surefire Stiletto)
    • Folding knife (I rarely carry fixed blades, to make room for the 2nd mag)
    • TQ - haven't found anything ideal for this (ankle holster isn't practical since I usually wear cowboy boots to church) but I will have it on or near me somewhere


    I don't find any of that to be difficult to conceal, or uncomfortable. But I also wear an untucked shirt. About twice a year the deacons will be asked to "dress up" for an event which for me just means wear a solid color shirt and tuck it in. In which case I just carry my 43 and hope for the best. Which is a lousy plan, and I wouldn't do it every week, but it's a concession to a request to dress nice(r) every couple months.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Like a lot of folks in the thread, I carry a small satchel/briefcase to church. It's one of the old Eagle Industries briefcases in grey. They way it is set up, it's got a compartment that is not immediately obvious when someone looks in it.

    It's got my Bible, a notepad pens, etc in the main compartment. It's also got a bunch of trauma supplies in the super-sneaking uber-hidden compartment - Quik-Clot, chest seals, airways, TQ's, gauze, ace wraps.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I'm no expert but I know enough to promise you that if it kicks off its not going to go at all how you've imagined it in your mind
    I came to this conclusion after some long soul searching.... ECQC should be mandatory...The chance for a clear shot while people move in the foreground, and people move in the background, and just trying shoot the moving guy in a moving crowd...The best conclusion I could reach is that an entangled gunfight is likely going to be necessary to protect all the innocents, and contact shots are most likely the safest for all concerned.

    When I teach active shooter response to church security teams (a term that should be loosely used based on my experience) I point out that the likely hood of one of the defenders taking a fast, accurate, effective shot at even seven yards is not likely. Sure, if it happens, do it, and let the congregation carry you out on their shoulders, cheering your name, and naming a wing of Sunday School classrooms after you. Otherwise doing God's work in that situation is going to require some huge balls, excellent decision making abilities, and a willingness to be hurt before completing your mission. Three traits that are uncommon singly, and very rare in combination in the general population overall.

    pat

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I'm no expert but I know enough to promise you that if it kicks off its not going to go at all how you've imagined it in your mind
    I really have no expectations of what might happen but being that I sit one yard from a large column
    I can take cover and keep it between me and and the threat no matter which direction.

  8. #48
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    Three traits that are uncommon singly, and very rare in combination in the general population overall.
    Sure about that? We have two brave souls shot dead tackling the shooter. We have the older gentleman at Sutherland entering the fray. Even at the Sikh temple, I read that one of the old guys tried for the shooter, using his ceremonial dagger. Plenty of unarmed and armed resistance out there.

    As far as going to the ground with the shooter, what do you propose if you are not close to the shooter. Do nothing? If the battle depends on old me, crossing a distance and wrestling, that's not a good option.

    A distance shot has the risk of shooting an innocent. This is the trolley car problem. We try to practice long shots. We might miss but hit with some. What is the cost/benefit ration that is acceptable. Hit two good guys or lose twenty?

  9. #49
    One advantage you will have over a mass shooter is that he is shooting at a mass of people, you are only shooting at one. The odds are he will take a while to get to you. While you are waiting your turn you will probably have time to take a carefully aimed shot.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tactical Black Belt View Post
    One advantage you will have over a mass shooter is that he is shooting at a mass of people, you are only shooting at one. The odds are he will take a while to get to you. While you are waiting your turn you will probably have time to take a carefully aimed shot.
    Have you ever tried to take a carefully aimed shot, at a moving target, in a high stress situation That you didn't know was coming? a gunshot will scare the piss out of you when you're not expecting it. Guess how I know.
    Random nobody.

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