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Thread: AK style 12ga, i.e. Saiga and clones, more specifically the bullpup variants.

  1. #1
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    Apr 2016
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    South Central PA

    AK style 12ga, i.e. Saiga and clones, more specifically the bullpup variants.

    Anybody toy with these yet? I'm getting a Tristar Compact next week, and looking for someone who may know a little about these Saiga 12 clones. I've only seen 1 or 2 that didn't have bolt hold open lever, other than that, all most all of them are pretty similar.

    Even if you have only worked on Saigas, I'd still love to hear what you know, as I can still adapt it to my gun.

    What I "know" so far.

    Almost all need a "break in period" of nothing but high brass, which is fine, I have a bunch of slugs and buckshot I would use to sight it in anyways. After that break in period, and adjusting the gas plug [more on that in a min], low brass will cycle mostly fine. Some low brass may not, but most people who have these run ghetto Walmart rounds, all depending on the brand of ammo and particular gun.

    Gas plug: on a Saiga it has 2 slots, indicating two positions, high brass or low brass. Some of the clones, including mine, have 4 slots. I don't know until I get the gun, if the four slots mean 4 settings. There is also a self adjusting block you can buy that does just that, self adjust, and comes stock on some clones.

    Mags: My gun, and most clones, come with 5 round mags. Mine can *accept* all Saiga mags. 5, 10, 12 mags are the most common. 12 looks too long. I bought 2 10 round promag mags, one in the gun and one reload *should* be sufficient for most HD scenarios.

    Drums: All Saigas, and clones, and bullpups can accept drums 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, but the drums get in the way of operating the gun. 10, 12, maybe 15 can work, but most of the drums are unreliable or really expensive, or both. You can buy 2-3 10rd mags [promag] for the cost of a "good" drum, but have 30rds in 3 mags, compared to 10-15 rounds in a drum that may not let you operate, or aim the gun effectively.

    Note: gun is cheap[$600], as well as the promag mags. I know ahead of time that their may be some issues with both, which is fine, I like tinkering with stuff, and have watched tons of vids, and read many articles about this gun and the other clones to get an idea of what to expect.

    2nd note: almost all mags, no matter the gun, have to be modified [2 min job] in some small way. The reason always given, is that all AK's have loose tolerances, so all the mags are made to be the same, then filed a bit to fit a particular gun.

    Main purpose of gun is for home defense, target shooting [25-50rds a week], and hunting if PA will ever let us use Semi-auto for large game.

    The action, barrel, and gas system on these, is essentially the same as an AK, just scaled up a bit. The only "forward" control on the Tristar Compact, is the trigger. Yes, it is a shitty bullpup trigger, but I'm used to bullpup triggers which can be either heavy or mushy, or both. All of the other controls; safety, bolt hold open, mag release, and charging handle are all at the butt end of the gun [OG format].

    This clone, Compact, looks like it could drop right into a Kushnapup kit[$250]. This is something I'm really considering. Looks to have better ergonomics, looks cooler IMO [not a necessity], and lighter, as well as a dedicated front grip.

    There is more I'm likely forgetting, but I'm not hear to teach, I'm here to learn. Any info is appreciated, and if I'm wrong on anything so far, let me know plz.

  2. #2
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    Away, away, away, down.......
    An AK bullpup like that combines the worst of the ergonomics of both the AK and bullpup weapons, add in cheap mags from a company that has never produced magazines for anything that actually work and it sounds like you’re about to jump headfirst into a raging dumpster fire of a gun.

    The only good thing about that gun you is don’t have it yet.

    I’ll point out a couple of design flaws for you.

    There will never be a way to operate the safety in a manner that is considered best practices of safely using a long gun..

    The charging handle is too far back and on the wrong side of the gun, there isn’t a way to run the charging handle quickly or efficiently.

    Injure your right hand or arm for some reason, but still need or want to shoot. Too bad, this gun won’t just toss hot shot shells in your face, it’ll also knock your teeth out with the charging handle, and malfunction because your now broken face caused the gun to short stroke.

    If you’re interested in bullpup shotguns check out the keltec pump with the single mag tube.
    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 05-03-2019 at 10:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    South Central PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    An AK bullpup like that combines the worst of the ergonomics of both the AK and bullpup weapons, add in cheap mags from a company that has never produced magazines for anything that actually work and it sounds like you’re about to jump headfirst into a raging dumpster fire of a gun.

    The only good thing about that gun you is don’t have it yet.

    I’ll point out a couple of design flaws for you.

    There will never be a way to operate the safety in a manner that is considered best practices of safely using a long gun..

    The charging handle is too far back and on the wrong side of the gun, there isn’t a way to run the charging handle quickly or efficiently.

    Injure your right hand or arm for some reason, but still need or want to shoot. Too bad, this gun won’t just toss hot shot shells in your face, it’ll also knock your teeth out with the charging handle, and malfunction because your now broken face caused the gun to short stroke.

    If you’re interested in bullpup shotguns check out the keltec pump with the single mag tube.
    I'm well aware of those shortcomings, but thank you for pointing them out. I forgot to mention about about no lefty shooting, without a different charging handle and not being able to aim, just point shoot, or catch the charging handle with your grill.

    If the mags are just junk, they'll be range toys that get used for malfunction practice. The other mags cost more, but are worth it if they function.

    I have a UTAS UTS 15 right now, and used to love it, till 2 of the 3 barrel lugs broke off. One of them was right above the chamber . Sent it back, and barrel was either replaced or repaired, as well as a new grip and trigger, all free. But now I don't trust it, which sucks, cause I did like it. It could hold 22, 1 3/4 mini shells with a 3'' in the chamber. The action was a bit to get used to, cause of how close your hands are, same with the Keltec. So not trusting the gun, and wanting to go semiauto for HD, lead me to this path.

    The Keltec 25 is a pretty cool pump gun though, will hold 41 mini shells, which cycle great in the Keltec 25, and the UTS 15.

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