2.5" Versus 3" K-Frame 357 for AIWB Versus 4" Barrel for OWB

[powell556]

Multi-part question. I used the collective wisdom of the forum regarding my desire to own "one" do-all revolver and picked up a nice pre-lock pre-MIM S&W 66 with a 4" barrel. My goal behind it was to have something to use for outdoor purposes as needed (maybe snakeshot if in snake country or with magnums for bears), and as a dryfire tool to get better with shooting my Glock.

As it turns out, I absolutely love this gun, the trigger is incredible in both DA and SA. I know it's not recommended by many but I can shoot it thumbs forward and it doesn't damage my left thumb. I can easily see myself buying a few more vintage S&W revolvers!

So now I'm looking at picking up one with a smaller barrel, either 2.5" or 3" for AIWB. Since I AIWB my Glock, it seems like a revolver for AIWB would keep things the same for me when I'm out in the woods. Some people may say that if I train enough with two holster positions, I should be fine, but I've heard some interviews of Todd Orr, grizzley bear survivor, and even though he had a gun, he first grabbed for bear spray because he said that was his training under stress.

In doing research it seems like 3" S&W vintage revolvers are 2.5x to 3x the price of 2.5" versions due to rarity. I'm seeing prices of $600 to $800 for 2.5" and $1800 to $2200 for 3" because of collector values.

In laying my 4" K-Frame over my Glock 19, it looks like a holster would have the same size if the revolver was 2.5" barrel because the 4" sticks about 1.5" past the bottom of the G19 holster.

My other concern is shootability/sight radius and ballistics of the shorter barrel. I read a few posts here that suggest that 2" to 2.5" barrels are anemic in the ballistic capacity department. I'm not sure if 3" is much better? If it is, then maybe it's worth waiting around to find a beat up 3" revolver that's less than 3x the cost of a 2.5". And maybe it's worth the extra 1/2" of holster length AIWB?

Will 357 mag stop a bear out of either a 2.5" or 3"barrel? I assume at some reduced barrel length, the ballistics may get so poor with the 357 that I'm better off with my G19 with longer barrel and 9mm loads.

Or is the ballistics poor enough that I really need to stick with the 4" barrel version I have now? Side note: I have read the warnings that the old K-frames have forcing cone issues with 357 mag so I don't plan to shoot a lot through it, maybe just 1/2 a box for training purposes so I don't forget what the recoil feels like.

Also, I like that it has an external hammer. It's a built in "gadget" for AIWB reholstering, and lets me cock it for SA shots if the time permits on a longer range precision shot. I think most people preferring bobbing the hammers on their snubbies, but the external hammer is part of the reason I want it. Any downsides to the external hammer for AIWB carry that I might not be considering due to ignorance of the platform?

[Dave T]

As much as I admire and respect the vintage S&Ws, I would recommend you consider S&W's new offering of a M19 Carry Comp. It is listed as a 3" barrel, which gives you the advantage of a full ejector stroke, something lacking in the 2.5" K-frames. It's comp actually reduces muzzle rise (not recoil) which gets you back on target faster. It also has a round butt (all new S&Ws do) which will aid in concealed carry no matter the position. There are 66 Carry Comps around in the used market but they demand high prices because of availability. I see the 19 Carry Comps on GB for under $1K regularly.

As for the 357 Magnum stopping a bear...that discussion could go on for pages. Out of a 2.5" or 3" barrel I wouldn't count on it. Heck, out of your 4" barrel I wouldn't count on it. Sure it may stop a bruin, but then again it may not. It is way ahead of poking them with a sharp stick and I would take a 357 as back-up to bear spray every time. In bear or cougar country I would carry 158g ammo, that I had practiced with.

YMMV,
Dave

[Totem Polar]

AIWB comfort is somewhat subjective and individual. That said, longer barrels can actually be more functional for AIWB. It might seem counterintuitive, but I’ve found that a 4" k-frame anchors more of the gun below the belt line than a 2"version does, and minimizes the gun’s tendency to "roll out."

I have a JMCK "George" for my 4" K-frames, and it makes the guns disappear in total comfort—so long as I use compact grips. With boot type grips, I find the 4" K easier to conceal than a G19/17/45. OMMV on that, obviuosly. The 4" K frame George works better for me than the 2" J version—which I found somewhat unstable in use. Again, that might sound 180 degrees from common sense, but it’s true in my case.

[Lon]

Or take a look at the newish 2.75” model 66.

[S Jenks]

Something else to consider is lack of accuracy with the shorter snubs. I have a 2.5” 686+ PC that I have a hard time making hits with at distance. On the other hand, my 3” barreled GP-100 and Mdl 64, with the longer sight radii, tend to be more forgiving.

[MolonLabe416]

The 3” K Frame is perhaps my favorite revolver configuration.

In re 357 stopping a bear. It might cause a bear to choose to disengage, but it is VERY unlikely to stop one.

If you want an older revolver, the Model 65 w 3” is available at reasonable cost. For example:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/810310314

I particularly like the LadySmith version:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/808573658

C&S, Dave Lauck, and a couple of others make nice high-viz fixed back and front sights for them.

As suggested earlier, the current 19 Comp is a good option if you’re not tied to an earlier weapon. The only lock Smith I have is a Thunder Ranch Model 22. The fit, finish, and roll marks are as good as anything they ever produced. Since the 19 Comp comes from the performance center, my expectation is that it should be OK.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/810876894

Let us know what you decide.

[Stephanie B]

If whacking a bear is your need, then maybe look at a Smith Model 69 or a 629.

[JHC]

.357 should do fine.

http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/d...with-handguns/

[HCM]

The 3” K Frame is perhaps my favorite revolver configuration.

In re 357 stopping a bear. It might cause a bear to choose to disengage, but it is VERY unlikely to stop one.

I’m a big fan of 3” K frames as well. As for .357 vs bears it depends on the bear.

A .357 might only dissuade a large bear like a polar, Brown or a Grizzly Bear. For smaller bears like black bears, or the hairy, husky gay men known as “bears,” .357 is adequate.



.

[TGS]

Something else to consider is lack of accuracy with the shorter snubs. I have a 2.5” 686+ PC that I have a hard time making hits with at distance. On the other hand, my 3” barreled GP-100 and Mdl 64, with the longer sight radii, tend to be more forgiving.

What's "At distance"?

Doing the 200 drill at 25 yards, I can easily score 170s to 180s with my 2.5" Model 19. No accuracy problem compared to the 4" Model 19 or 6" 586 I used to own.