San Diego synagogue shooting

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The support of the current state of Israel is rather new in the story of discrimination. It comes from a recent push for Evangelical Zionism for the 2nd Coming. Real affection for Jews is a different story. All those reasons cited by Praeger existed in the USA before WWII and things weren't so great then. The fine folk still march from Skokie to Charlottesville.

It is silly to deny a strong thread of prejudice in the USA. Are attitudes changing, hopefully - will the bad ones come back - if social circumstance stress society the USA is no different from any other society that can fall back into ethnic and religious hatred.

No one predicted that Germany which had a large population of integrated Jews would be the Nazi state. After WWI, the existing and perhaps deep values were played up to what we saw.

The lesson is for Jews to always be on guard. It is like a virus that is dormant but can spring up. If folks will state :

For now, suffice it to say that the people in our country to whom I would be most enthusiastic about entrusting my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are practicing Christians.

what does that say to me. When I call 911, send a Christian?

That the radical left has adopted antisemitism springs from various factors. However, the underlying virus is there and is fertilized by their value set. The tropes are the same.

[RJ]

Not sure who lost their life, but may they Rest In Peace, and the victims recover fully.

Her name deserves to be remembered.

Lori Gilbert-Kaye.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ng/3608418002/

"The woman killed during Saturday’s San Diego synagogue shooting stepped in front of the bullets aimed at her longtime friend and rabbi as he raced to evacuate children, according to her friends and authorities.

Friends say the actions of Lori Gilbert-Kaye, 60, were utterly in keeping with the San Diego native they knew: always the first to help with faith and family."

Requiescat in pace.

[0ddl0t]

Shooter modeled himself after the NZ shooter - particularly his desire to see so much more gun control it creates a civil war.

[Joe in PNG]

I get a little itchy when the actions of previous generations are used to condemn the beliefs of the present one.

Should we condemn and denounce modern Shintoist & Zen Buddhist for the atrocities of Imperial Japan? Or Mongolian Shamans for the acts of Genghis Khan?

This sort of thing is not that far from Bills of Attainder & the concept of ancestral sins... which seems to be the hip thing these days.

[blues]

I get a little itchy when the actions of previous generations are used to condemn the beliefs of the present one.

Should we condemn and denounce modern Shintoist & Zen Buddhist for the atrocities of Imperial Japan? Or Mongolian Shamans for the acts of Genghis Khan?

This sort of thing is not that far from Bills of Attainder & the concept of ancestral sins... which seems to be the hip thing these days.

You make an important point, Joe. If my cousin, born in Paris in 1942, could forgive and enjoy living amongst Germans, (who murdered his father that same year in Auschwitz), then anyone can forgive following generations for the sins of those that came before them.

[Kanye Wyoming]

The support of the current state of Israel is rather new in the story of discrimination. It comes from a recent push for Evangelical Zionism for the 2nd Coming. Real affection for Jews is a different story. All those reasons cited by Praeger existed in the USA before WWII and things weren't so great then. The fine folk still march from Skokie to Charlottesville.

1. Sometimes just because there are people on the left who want you to believe something-- e.g., that the Christian enthusiasm for Jews and Israel is rooted in rooting for an acceleration of the second coming -- doesn’t mean it’s true. Good reading here - https://www.thedailybeast.com/christ...-reality-check

2. Regardless of the above, sometimes it’s good to learn to take yes for an answer. I believe it was Netanyahu who once commented to the effect that when the Messiah comes, we can argue over a glass of wine with our Christian friends whether it was the first time or the second time.

The fine folk still march from Skokie to Charlottesville.

It is silly to deny a strong thread of prejudice in the USA. Are attitudes changing, hopefully - will the bad ones come back - if social circumstance stress society the USA is no different from any other society that can fall back into ethnic and religious hatred.

This strikes me as not too far from saying there are men who rape women, therefore all men are a sexy photo away from becoming a rapist. In many societies in the past rape wasn’t frowned upon. That’s true still in some societies today, but it’s not true in the U.S. Rape is not mainstream or “normalized” in the U.S. and rapists are scorned and put in prison. Likewise with anti-Semitism. Despite the rumblings on the secular left and the ever-present racist kooks at the other end of the horseshoe, mainstream America rejects anti-Semitism. One of the wisest people I've had the pleasure to know, some dude called Zimmer81, touched on this here not too long ago - https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....025#post806025.

It was really the embedded tweet, though, that captured things precisely in the wake of the Pittsburgh synagogue attack:

No one predicted that Germany which had a large population of integrated Jews would be the Nazi state. After WWI, the existing and perhaps deep values were played up to what we saw.

Correct, except that in the U.S. it is not going to come from the neo-Nazi skinheads, who are a smaller percentage of the population than rapists. Where it’s coming from now is the secular left. Times change — that was the revolver era, it’s now a Glock world, and mindset must adapt accordingly.

If folks will state :

For now, suffice it to say that the people in our country to whom I would be most enthusiastic about entrusting my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are practicing Christians.

what does that say to me. When I call 911, send a Christian?

It doesn’t mean send a Christian, although in the U.S. there’s at least a 94.31% chance (probably higher) it will be a Christian who responds. Thank you Christians.

I meant it in the broader political/societal sense. The people who are contemptuous of our history, and who are dismissive of the Constitution, its genius and the genius of those who crafted it, how it came to be, and who fail to recognize how blessed we are to live in this country with fellow citizens, most of whom are filled with goodness and generosity, under a system that enables goodness and generosity to flourish — with exceptions that prove the rule those people are on the left and are not practicing Christians.

Obvious almost to the point of trite, the genius of the Founders (all Christians) seems lost on many these days:

Putting aside that they understood the concept of innovation, and even had repeating firearms, this group of men understood something far more fundamental: human nature. Baked into virtually every meticulously crafted line of the Declaration, Constitution, Federalist Papers, and treatises of the day was a recognition that man has both incredible capacity for cooperation and devastating potential for destruction. Equipped with knowledge of history and of human nature, the Founders had possibly the greatest predictive power of any group of people throughout history.

https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/19...i-Bct7ZUzfWnRM

That the radical left has adopted antisemitism springs from various factors. However, the underlying virus is there and is fertilized by their value set. The tropes are the same.

Yes, but the tenets of Christianity are not included in that value set. Jews, Israel and an America based on Judeo-Christian values are the antithesis of their utopian vision, and are a living refutation of their most fondly held beliefs/illusions.

tl;dr version: fear not Christians, fear those who fear Christians.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'll hold 'em and stick with what I said. Folks are free to believe what the want. We are in a discussion region that no argument will move anyone's position. Meanwhile, the documented rise in hate crimes against Jews and others suggests that we, of those groups, cannot be aware and unprepared for the bad people who are not good practitioners of a religion.

[TGS]

Can someone clarify the incident for me:

Was there an armed non-LE citizen that engaged prior to the BP Agent, or was there only the off-duty BP Agent that engaged?

[Jay Cunningham]

what does that say to me. When I call 911, send a Christian?

If you’re a NYC Jew (and there are a lot of NYC Jews) you literally get your own Jewish 911.

[blues]

If you’re a NYC Jew (and there are a lot of NYC Jews) you literally get your own Jewish 911.

Seriously, what does that even mean?