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Thread: Considering M&P 15

  1. #1

    Considering M&P 15

    Anyone have any experience with m&p 15?

    Much like my pistol upbringing, which started with the Makarov and the TT-30 pistol, my rifle experience is intertwined with soviet weapons. The AK is the only semi auto rifle that i have shot--granted i shot it a lot, both in 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. I now want to expand my platform familiarity/proficiency to the AR platform. Coming from the AK world, for ~800 you can buy a "top end" kiss rifle. As i understand, with the AR that might not be quite possible. The M&P 15 looks like it might be a nice mid level entry into the AR.

    Things that push me towards S/W--they seem determined to make their M&P line work.

    things that i'm looking for in the rifle:
    --#1 Reliability, when i pull the trigger i want it to go bang (steel cased ammo included)
    --I would like to have a flat top --if i'm going to go to the AR over the AK, i want to be able to mount my optics easily



    Thoughts?
    I saw that some of the M&P rifles did not have a forward assist-- is this a big deal?

  2. #2
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    Pat Rogers has recently come out in favor of the S&Ws. He kicked S&W in the teeth pretty hard a few years back, so that is a sea change. If you don't know, Pat is almost unarguably the SME of the AR platform.

    steel cased ammo included
    Might be an issue. IME, steel cased ammo is loaded light, so some buffers/buffer springs may not work with steel cased ammo. I think it's going to be more dependent on the individual rifle than anything else.

    After decades of firing M16E1s, M16A1s, M16A2s, M4s and MForgeries, IMHO, the forward assist is super for turning a minor malfunction into a major one. While at least Big Army still teaches SPORTS for malfunction reduction, many of us have seen the light and use Push/Pull, Rack, Roll and Re-engage. The forward assist (to steal a quote from Col. Cooper) is a solution to a non-existent question.

  3. #3
    "use Push/Pull, Rack, Roll and Re-engage" would that technique require grabbing the bolt with your fingers? With a DI gun, would that be possible after sending many rounds down range? I apologize for my ignorance.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Push/Pull refers to ensuring the magazine is seated. Otherwise you're manipulating the charging handle which is not directly connected to the bolt carrier group.

  5. #5
    Member Al T.'s Avatar
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    Push/Pull, Rack, Roll and Re-engage
    Push/Pull is to check magazine lock by pushing up on the magazine and pulling down. The weak hand then flies to the bolt charging handle (Rack) and pulls it to the rear in order to retract the bolt which opens the dust cover. (Roll) is the simultaneous tilting of the AR to the right side to allow the bad round or debris to fall out assisted by gravity. If the threat is still a threat, (Re-engage) press the trigger.

    Other Pat wisdom (applies to more than ARs) is to use the acronym MEAL. MEAL is a check list of the things that keep an AR running.

    M = magazines. Use good ones, don't marry'em. If one fails, hit it with a big hammer and drive on. I like Pmags and Pat also like Tango Down's offerings.

    E = extractor. Not much of an issue on newer rifles, but it is a wear item and (IIRC) should be replaced at about the 5k mark. If you shoot steel case ammo, be prepared for a bit sooner replacement. Cheap item.

    A = ammo. Use good ammo, crap ammo is crap. Ammo also changes every now and again. I had a bad experience with WWB which left me puzzled until I figured that the older stuff was GTG, new lots, not so much.

    L - lubrication. ARs like wet. I'm not convinced that using expensive lube is needed, just use lube. I like the SLIP 2000 products, but (IMHO) the important part is keeping it wet. A quart of Mobil One synthetic works well and is darn cheep.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Push/Pull refers to ensuring the magazine is seated. Otherwise you're manipulating the charging handle which is not directly connected to the bolt carrier group.
    Thanks Jay,

    Have you seen many come through your classes? How do they perform?

    Al T,

    Can you point me to a review by Pat Rogers?

    Thanks for your help guys, trying to broaden my commie ways.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    The M&P-15s seem like pretty good rifles. I've seen several, but I don't see the numbers that Rogers sees.

  8. #8
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    I used the forward assist to assure the carrier is fully seated after checking to make sure it fed the round in the magazine I inserted in the gun.

    I'd say you could get a BCM close to that.

    I feel like some kind of gear peddler, honestly, I do.

    But, here's the way I see it, the things that drove me to go with my BCM Midlength, was, one, I decided I wanted a 16'' gun, and in a DI gun, you run the longest reliable gas length possible, it just is a good principle, at 16'' run a midlength, at 18'' run a rifle, Carbine at 14 and under, etc.

    That's just how I see it, running at lower pressures makes it easier on the gun.

    I liked that it has a chrome lined, HPT and MPI'd M16 BCG, I liked that it had all mil-spec components in the lower, an H lower, a life time warranty, chrome lined barrel, in 1/7 (I've never shot anything over 62 grain through it, full disclosure), with the correct height FSB. Mil-spec Buffer tube, properly staked key and castle nut.

    Also, they have a lifetime warranty.

    I just think, honestly... it's worth look.

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...&key=MID-750-C

    $980, or, if you're like me, and you're thrifty, and don't care about factory blemished products that pass QC and have a lifetime warranty.

    You can save go with this.

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=LWR-BCM

    and ($271)

    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...on&key=UPR-BCM

    (Midlength govt. profile, M16 BCG, and BCM Mod 4 charging handle)

    For $850 for the exact same gun and just realize you don't need to trash the handguards and stock, and you don't pay for them up front, and you might have a ding on the lower.

    I'd pay the extra $50.

    That being said, S&W is a stand up company and my family owns...3 of their guns? Also an American made, lifetime warranty company.


    http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=311002


    Ironically, G&R's a S&W distributor... the BCM is still $50 cheaper.

    I'm just saying.

    ETA: If BCM doesn't have factory SBR's available by the time I'm in the place I'm buying one. I'll be buying a blemished lower, upper, etc., I just want a Factory SBR, but realistically... looking at it I could save $200 going that route, for literally, the *same* gun, not "oh they're made by the same parts contractor" the same gun by the same company, lol.

  9. #9
    Glock Collective Assimile Suvorov's Avatar
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    Escapee from the SF Bay Area now living on the Front Range of Colorado.
    Which model are you considering?

    I have had an M&P15A for about 3 years now and it is my primary carbine. It was my 3rd AR after a Colt A2 Sporter and a Bushmaster/DPMS frankengun build. All and all it has been a good carbine. The lower receiver was out of spec when I got it and it would not allow magazines to drop free, I sent it back to Smith and they replaced the receiver with no issues. The hand guards are the older narrow single shield CAR-15 hand guards which will heat up a little faster than the newer hand guards, not really an issue with semi-auto fire but I have replaced them with MOE equipment anyhow. I have a little over 2000 rounds down the pipe and have yet to have any malfunctions. The rifle made it through Paul Howe's carbine class with no issues - I can not fault it on its performance - the trigger is nice and smooth, carrier is staked well, fit and finish are as nice as any AR and accuracy is as good I can reasonably expect. All and all, it is a solid carbine.

    I have not run any steel case through my carbine so I can not comment on its reliability there. As far as getting a flat top, all the M&P series rifles are flat tops, the basic carbine comes with a detachable carry handle but that can be removed if you want to mount optics.

    I think the general consciousness on the M&Ps is that they are good ARs. Smith does not make them to exac military specifications, the barrel steel is a little more mild (and cheap), the rate of twist is 1:9, and a few other things are done to either lower cost or cater to the sportsman crowd. None of these things are for me deal breakers however. While they may not be the best ARs available, they are definitely better guns than the lower end of the AR world (Bushmaster, DPMS, CMMG, etc).

    All this said, the price on Colt's basic carbine is under $1000 and there is no way I would purchase a M&P for the same price as a Colt unless you are living in a ban state. As mentioned, BCM is another great brand which I would purchase before an M&P for the same money.

  10. #10
    I have an M&P15-T (with the factory Troy rail) that I purchased a few years ago (2008-ish) and I couldn't be happier with it.

    I wanna say the barrel is 1:9" (although the current models are 1:8") and it has probably close to 10,000rds through it.

    From what I understand, they have a reputation as "Tier 2 guns" but it has been every bit the equal of my BCMs and Colts.

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