Help with a CZ

[j.d.allen]

Hey guys, I don't post here often but I read enough posts to know that there are some pretty smart shooters here and I have a bit of an issue I thought some of you might have some insight on.

I have a CZ 75B SA that in the past has had some issues with failure to go into battery and failure to extract. I got a 16lb recoil spring from wolff (2lbs over stock), an extra power extractor spring, and extra power mag springs in an attempt to correct those issues. The magazines are brand new. I numbered the magazines to isolate a magazine issue if possible.

It doesn't seem to have any more problems with going into battery or extracting, but now I'm getting stovepipe malfunctions that I didn't have before. It happened three times in about 100-150 rounds I put through it since changing out the springs.

All of the malfunctions have happened with the same magazine, so it would seem that the mag is the problem. However as far as I can tell there's no difference between that mag and the others, they are all brand new mags either CZ factory or MecGar with extra power wolff springs installed. So I don't know if it was just the luck of the draw that the malfunctions just happened to occur when I was using that mag by chance. The one that the malfunctions happened with is a MecGar mag.

Ammo was Blazer Brass 115 grain FMJ.

Anybody have any suggestions as to what I should do next?

[Alpha Sierra]

Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is typically the correct one.

If the malfunctions always happen with the same magazine, stop trying to second guess everything and put it aside for a month. If the malfunctions that always happened with the suspect magazine go away, throw the magazine away. They are disposable.

[willie]

I've owned at least 7 CZ handguns to include the older .45 ACP model and 40 S&W and 9mm in the 75 series. The problems you describe were at one time much more common than they are today. At one time weak extractor springs were blamed for many malfunctions. Alpha-Sierra gave the best advice when he said to set aside the suspicious magazine. I will give further advice: put the original springs back in and start anew with testing. CZ handguns are over sprung anyway. If you do continue to have extraction problems, I suggest calling CZUSA and discuss the problem with a tech. Ask if you can send in your old extractor to be swapped out with a new one and then do so if you can. They would want the old extractor for cross referencing it with the serial number and using the data for their own research. The new extractor may fix the issues. If so, replacing springs was a random attempt when the problem was a defective part to begin with. If you present yourself as a happy CZ consumer who needs advice, you will be pleasantly surprised at the good treatment you will receive.

About CZ magazines. Some say Mec Gar makes them. That is correct but not totally. The last three new CZ handguns that I bought new came with one Mec Gar and one factory mag. In each case, the CZ factory mag was the one shipped in the pistol. It also came with an attractive and thicker rubber base plate. Without going into detail, I will say that I can easily distinguish between factory and Mec Gar magazines although both are considered original equipment. The CZ factory mag is inferior. I say this based on my limited experience. I'm convinced that I'm correct but do understand that my limited sample is not statistically significant.

When I have the least inkling that a magazine of any brand is defective, I hit it with a big hammer and throw it away. I learned the hard way to do this. If I wrote anything of value, it is the suggestion to discard any magazine with problems.

[Alpha Sierra]

Just because a CZ magazine doesn't say MecGar on it does not mean MecGar didn't make it.

Just because a CZ magazine is stamped CZUB or CZ USA or with the CZ logo does not mean that CZ made it.

Subcontracted parts are made, and marked, exactly as the customer specifies in its prints, specifications, and contract.

[HCM]

Hey guys, I don't post here often but I read enough posts to know that there are some pretty smart shooters here and I have a bit of an issue I thought some of you might have some insight on.

I have a CZ 75B SA that in the past has had some issues with failure to go into battery and failure to extract. I got a 16lb recoil spring from wolff (2lbs over stock), an extra power extractor spring, and extra power mag springs in an attempt to correct those issues. The magazines are brand new. I numbered the magazines to isolate a magazine issue if possible.

It doesn't seem to have any more problems with going into battery or extracting, but now I'm getting stovepipe malfunctions that I didn't have before. It happened three times in about 100-150 rounds I put through it since changing out the springs.

All of the malfunctions have happened with the same magazine, so it would seem that the mag is the problem. However as far as I can tell there's no difference between that mag and the others, they are all brand new mags either CZ factory or MecGar with extra power wolff springs installed. So I don't know if it was just the luck of the draw that the malfunctions just happened to occur when I was using that mag by chance. The one that the malfunctions happened with is a MecGar mag.

Ammo was Blazer Brass 115 grain FMJ.

Anybody have any suggestions as to what I should do next?

The mags “seem” to be identical but obviously something is off about the one cause if malfunctions even if it is not obvious. A magazine can be bad when new just like anything else. That is why we number them.

Normally I would say chuck the bad mag and buy another but since it is brand new I would call CZ and see if they will replace it.

[willie]

My Mec Gar mags have two holes in the front. One near the top and another nearer the bottom. My CZ mags lack these holes. The Mec Gar mags have bodies that are slightly thicker than the CZ mags. They are noticeably heavier. My CZ mags have a groove on each side near the bottom end, but the Mec Gar mags lack these grooves. When comparing the two brands by looking at the front surface, each has a different taper where they are folded during construction. When viewing the opposite sides--the rear--one notices another difference. The CZ mag has a straight shape from one side to the other. The Mec Gar has a curved half moon shape. Comparing the top lateral surfaces, one sees another difference. The Mec Gar mags have a more acute bend toward the center from slightly above the catch notch upwards. This is pronounced on the side bordering on the rear surface. Finally, the two brands have differently shaped followers.

I write these descriptions based on the 30 plus magazines I have for my two CZ PCR's and my P-01. Statistically, my sample is not valid but reflects what I have in front of me. I have had to discard CZ factory mags but never have I discarded a Mec Gar mag. So what do I think? I think that CZ is sitting on a ton of their military mags and getting rid of them as they ship guns. The guys at Cajun Gun Works told me in in a face to face conversation back in November that they were unable to buy Mec Gar mags because the company continued to be out of stock. So guess whose they were buying.

As I said above, I can distinguish a CZ mag from a Mec Gar.

[pangloss]

My hypothesis regarding the stove pipes: The heavier recoil spring is slowing reward motion of the slide. The stronger magazine springs increase pressure of the top round in the mag on the bottom of the slide and consequently slow reward motion of the slide. You are using relatively weak range ammo, so you are starting with less slide velocity than NATO or +P ammo. In concert, these three factors are adversely affecting ejection. Do you remember if the stove pipes were at the beginning or end of a mag?

If you don't know what's going on, never change more than one variable at a time.

Also, I don't trust myself to eyeball magazines. I suspect that tiny little differences can have big effects. If you've isolated the problem mag, mark it for training use only or trash it. I have one Magpul Glock mag that causes ejection problems, and it lives in a separate cabinet from all my other mags, except for the one Korean mag I left in there to keep it company. The Korean mag has never caused problems though.

[j.d.allen]

My hypothesis regarding the stove pipes: The heavier recoil spring is slowing reward motion of the slide. The stronger magazine springs increase pressure of the top round in the mag on the bottom of the slide and consequently slow reward motion of the slide. You are using relatively weak range ammo, so you are starting with less slide velocity than NATO or +P ammo. In concert, these three factors are adversely affecting ejection. Do you remember if the stove pipes were at the beginning or end of a mag?

If you don't know what's going on, never change more than one variable at a time.

Also, I don't trust myself to eyeball magazines. I suspect that tiny little differences can have big effects. If you've isolated the problem mag, mark it for training use only or trash it. I have one Magpul Glock mag that causes ejection problems, and it lives in a separate cabinet from all my other mags, except for the one Korean mag I left in there to keep it company. The Korean mag has never caused problems though.

The stovepipes always happened in the middle of the mag. As to your comment about changing more than one variable, I suppose you
're right. I'll have to go back to scratch and start over changing one thing at a time.

[j.d.allen]

The mags “seem” to be identical but obviously something is off about the one cause if malfunctions even if it is not obvious. A magazine can be bad when new just like anything else. That is why we number them.

Normally I would say chuck the bad mag and buy another but since it is brand new I would call CZ and see if they will replace it.

Sounds reasonable, thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately CZ can't replace the mag in my case, as I live in California and it's a standard capacity 16 round mag. They can't ship me another one unless it's a ten rounder. It would be illegal. But in any case a reduced capacity mag that is reliable is better than a standard capacity mag that isn't.

[willie]

Ask CZ to ship a new mag follower.