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Thread: FBI lawsuit concerning S&W 1076

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    FBI lawsuit concerning S&W 1076

    Does anyone recall a lawsuit against the FBI by females who were fired for failure to qualify with the S&W 1076 10mm in the 90's? I thought I recalled reading something about that years ago and now I cannot find any information on the net. Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cpd2110 View Post
    Does anyone recall a lawsuit against the FBI by females who were fired for failure to qualify with the S&W 1076 10mm in the 90's? I thought I recalled reading something about that years ago and now I cannot find any information on the net. Thanks in advance.
    It was part of a broader civil rights suit, Hansen v. Webster:

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/..._v_webster.pdf

    The gun stuff was actually part of a federal civil service hearing rather then an actual lawsuit. I believe it was in the early 1980's and involved revolvers, long before the 1076.
    Last edited by HCM; 06-15-2015 at 02:09 PM.

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    Thanks, I must be all turned around on the 1076.

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    If I recall correctly, there were a bunch of issues with the 1076 across the board. The gun was relatively big and heavy for plainclothes carry peace out. I once heard an FBI agent describe it as "the size of a box of Wheaties ". And ammo was another issue. Apparently the original intent was to use full power 10 mm ammo.while manageable for a "shooter" The recoil and muzzle blast were a problem for many agents. As a result, the FBI adopted a down loaded 10mm round which matched the ballistics of a wildcat Cut down 10 mm round which eventually became the 40 Smith & Wesson. Using a bigger gun with lower capacity to deliver the same ballistics didn't make much sense.

    I'm a fairly large individual and I know I wouldn't want to give up carrying a P228 for a 1076.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post

    I'm a fairly large individual and I know I wouldn't want to give up carrying a P228 for a 1076.
    3rd Gen full size S&Ws are NOT small/medium hand friendly. Considering my mom cant reach the single action trigger of a 4006 I'm not surprised the 1076's adoption triggered a lawsuit.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    3rd Gen full size S&Ws are NOT small/medium hand friendly.
    Define "full size". If you are referring to the large caliber (10mm/.45ACP) pistols, then okay.

    But the 3rd Gen 9mm service pistols, as embodied in the 5904-5906 series, were designed expressly to be user-friendly to medium and small hands… specifically, smaller-statured men, and crack troops. I was told (and the guy telling me was definitely in a position to know, and had no reason to blow smoke; we had already chosen the Sig) that S&W spent close to a million dollars (much of that in ergonomic studies) developing the new snap-on grip set and shape of the metal grip frame on the four-digit pistols, with the express purpose of shortening the trigger reach as much as possible.

    I'll put it this way… SIGs are designed for large-handed men, and the only thing that kept me from going with a 5906 when we began transition was SIG providing P226 short triggers at the eleventh hour.

    Dunno about the .40 caliber guns; those began appearing in 1990, and IIRC they were the same external dimensions as the Euro-Pellet versions. But I could be wrong about that. The local city PD issued 4046s for some years, but we only dealt with the nines. FWIW, the local sheriff's office issued 1076s for quite a few years. Listening to those deputies gripe, it sucked as a uniform carry piece too...

    Your mom must have extraordinarily short fingers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP972 View Post
    I'll put it this way… SIGs are designed for large-handed men, and the only thing that kept me from going with a 5906 when we began transition was SIG providing P226 short triggers at the eleventh hour.
    Funny you should mention that, as I had the opposite problem. My first agency had issued SIGs with short triggers. They had them to accommodate those with small hands, and policy would not allow us to switch them to the standard trigger. The only thing that made that gun fit my freakishly long fingers was swapping out the stock skinny plastic grips with the huge Hogue finger groove grips. Things were much better at my next job where again it was an issued SIG, but I had the standard trigger AND the Hogue grips.
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  8. #8
    Did you experience the dreaded "trigger bar spring drag"? Those early Goodyears had no plastic plate/liners on the interior side, and sometimes the exposed SIG trigger bar spring would drag on the rubber and be impeded. Hogue was made aware of the issue, and began molding hard plastic plates in the proper location so the spring rode against that instead of rubber.

    One wonders why "they" would not allow you to fit a standard trigger to your pistol? The absolute stupidity displayed by some FTU heads, who, refusing to be confused with facts, made it harder than necessary on their people, has always amazed me.

    That tour of amazement began when I was in the academy in 1978 (revolvers, of course), and I was not allowed to use speedloaders in the firearms training portion. I was welcome to carry them upon graduation, though. True story.

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    We had some serious issues with issuing the 3rd gen S&Ws, specifically the 5906, and the small handed folks/IBOs. The problem was DA trigger reach, and being able to run the safety.

    The Christine Hansen thing was well before the 10mms showed up. It also resulted in the FBI having short stocked 870s available for training and use by the agents.


    Ref the 1076, S&W factory armorer dudes of that time tell me one issue with the gun was FBI armorers doing "trigger jobs" on the guns and messing things up, then asking S&W why the guns were unreliable.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard View Post
    We had some serious issues with issuing the 3rd gen S&Ws, specifically the 5906, and the small handed folks/IBOs. The problem was DA trigger reach, and being able to run the safety.




    .
    We issued a 3906 and later 3913s to people that needed them.

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