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Thread: SIRT SPOT Sight Thoughts...

  1. #1
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    SIRT SPOT Sight Thoughts...

    I'm getting ready to order a SIRT pistol for my wife and I to get more effective dry fire training at home. As I have an annoying tendency to start problem solving on problems I don't even have yet, I got to thinking about red dot sights put into the mix. Right now we only use iron sights (fiber front, black rear), but I've been thinking about making the switch to a slide mounted RDS for some time and I'll eventually do it. I'm 44 and I don't have presbyopia yet, but I know it's coming.
    It appears that SIRT has a good inexpensive solution with the SPOT plastic housing that uses the take up laser to emulate a dot sight, however, the fact that the laser is only activated by touching the trigger limits how useful that would be. Compound that with making it hard to use with software like LASR or ShootOFF. How do we solve this problem without buying a second optic and trying to figure out how to mount it in a way that emulates the real thing? Milling it out is risky and could be expensive if you outsource the work, and the cheapest of the decent quality mini dot sights are still $200. Using a dovetail mount is really too high and could jack with your presentation.
    I had a thought that using a rail mounted laser on the SIRT with the SPOT should fix this problem nicely. It can be adjusted to the dry fire distance point of impact and be set to constant on. Obviously, it would necessitate having the green/red version of the SIRT so you can tell the difference between the dot and the shots. It also lets you still have the takeup laser if you need to diagnose. I know the ShootOFF software can be set to ignore red and only register green. I think the Streamlight TLR-2 would be perfect, as you also get a light to practice with.
    Problem solved? Does anyone here have this magical combination of equipment to try it out?

  2. #2
    You might also consider that a laser is visible at all viewing angles while an RDS is not. Are you going to subconsciously cheat by spotting the laser on the target and bringing it into the view finder?

    What’s a bigger long term problem. Dove tail mounted RDS that may be a couple of hundredths of an inch higher on the slide or seeing the laser into the view finder?

  3. #3
    I have a SIRT but never use it. The lasers don't help with anything other than getting you to want to look at the target instead of your front sight. I don't think it's a good dry fire tool. I do like the magazine for dry fire.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    You might also consider that a laser is visible at all viewing angles while an RDS is not. Are you going to subconsciously cheat by spotting the laser on the target and bringing it into the view finder?

    What’s a bigger long term problem. Dove tail mounted RDS that may be a couple of hundredths of an inch higher on the slide or seeing the laser into the view finder?
    This is a really good point and I can visualize that happening easily. So, maybe it's actually a good thing that the dot wouldn't be available until you prepped the trigger. It does highlight to me that it is worth the extra money to get the green/red model if you plan to try the SPOT and if you plan to use software/webcam. It might be annoying when you come off the trigger between shots though.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Olim9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    How do we solve this problem without buying a second optic and trying to figure out how to mount it in a way that emulates the real thing? Milling it out is risky and could be expensive if you outsource the work, and the cheapest of the decent quality mini dot sights are still $200.
    At that point, I would just get a dot milled to whatever gun you’re using and use that for dry practice. I know, it’s sacrilidge to suggest using your real world gun to be used in dry fire and loading, unloading it every day going through individual JHP ammo but if you can get a $200 SIRT, why not just get the real thing? If you’re so worried about parts breakages when dryfiring, you can always mitigate that by using snap caps or knocking the gun out of battery.

    My experience with the SIRT is limited as I’ve had it for a couple of weeks but I’m not 100% on just how well the SPOT works in conjunction with an RDS gun, especially with a lower mounted optic. I use my SIRT for compressed shooting work while my RDS guns can tell me what I’m doing right and wrong in dryfire. I don’t see what a SIRT can do that an RDS can’t for general marksmanship practice.


    I think you’re overcomplicating this and should wait and see what Trijicon will be unveiling during the NRAAM before making any purchase decisions.
    Last edited by Olim9; 04-17-2019 at 11:07 PM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter EricM's Avatar
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    If you plan to do a lot with software like LASR or ShootOFF, I'd suggest looking into the SIRT with an IR laser to avoid any distraction. I've used LASR extensively with IR lasers and it works well.

    I designed and manufactured a replacement slide last year that provides "milled" mounting of a red dot. Then life happened and I never got around to setting up the business side of it or making more than a few of them. If there's interest perhaps I could get things moving again.



    For that project, I used the FastFire mount pattern, as that was shared by most of the lower-cost sights. At the time there was a Weaver available under $100...the glass had a tint even stronger than an RMR, but it seemed adequate for dry fire purposes. However it looks like those are discontinued and I'm not familiar with what's out now. For what it's worth, I did a comparison of several red dots back then to show window size and tint. From left to right, Primary Arms (discontinued), Burris FastFire III, Trijicon RMR (Type 1), Vortex Venom, Weaver (discontinued). Wish Primary Arms still sold theirs, it had much better glass than the Weaver. I recall preferring the Vortex Venom over the FastFire III due to the adjustment method, and I think the glass may have been a tiny bit better, though the window shape is different than the RMR most people are carrying. If I get back into this, I'll take a fresh look at the low end of the market.


  7. #7
    EricM,

    I could stand to hear a little more about these slides...
    Jules
    Runcible Works

  8. #8
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    EricM,
    That looks outstanding. I was specifically looking at the Vortex Venom or Burris Fastfire III, because you can get them with the 3MOA dot size to match the RMR 3.5 MOA dot. One thought I had is if you can get the channel deep enough, you don't have to have a super sturdy mount in this application. Hell, you could use Gorilla double sided tape probably. I think there would be a market for those slides for sure because the dot revolution is definitely coming soon.
    Last edited by stomridertx; 04-23-2019 at 12:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter EricM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runcible View Post
    EricM,

    I could stand to hear a little more about these slides...
    The slide attaches with the same pins as the factory slide and provides access to POI adjustment screws and switches. The rear weight needs to be removed from the frame to make room for the sight (it is just glued in and will come free with pliers or vise grips). The slide would come with tall black polymer sights, but is also compatible with any front and rear Glock sights if you want tritium or a high-vis front. The red dot is secured with two hex screws into metal inserts. Made in house, 3D printed in nylon.

    Quote Originally Posted by stomridertx View Post
    EricM,
    That looks outstanding. I was specifically looking at the Vortex Venom or Burris Fastfire III, because you can get them with the 3MOA dot size to match the RMA 3.5 MOA dot. One thought I had is if you cand get the channel deep enought, you don't have to have a super sturdy mount in this application. Hell, you could use Gorilla double sided tape probably. I think there would be a market for those slides for sure because the dot revolution is definitely coming soon.
    Thank you! Yeah both of those sights would be good choices. My recollection is the plug connecting the wires to the trigger module was the limiting factor on how low the sight could be mounted, but there was just enough room to match the standard milling depth. For basic dry fire you probably could get away with double sided tape (as long as the battery was top-loading), but some folks also use SIRTs for things like force-on-force training, so I was glad to be able to include a robust mount.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter stomridertx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricM View Post
    The slide attaches with the same pins as the factory slide and provides access to POI adjustment screws and switches. The rear weight needs to be removed from the frame to make room for the sight (it is just glued in and will come free with pliers or vise grips). The slide would come with tall black polymer sights, but is also compatible with any front and rear Glock sights if you want tritium or a high-vis front. The red dot is secured with two hex screws into metal inserts. Made in house, 3D printed in nylon.



    Thank you! Yeah both of those sights would be good choices. My recollection is the plug connecting the wires to the trigger module was the limiting factor on how low the sight could be mounted, but there was just enough room to match the standard milling depth. For basic dry fire you probably could get away with double sided tape (as long as the battery was top-loading), but some folks also use SIRTs for things like force-on-force training, so I was glad to be able to include a robust mount.

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