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Thread: GP100 vs Vintage S&W 686, 19, 66, other? First and Only Revolver

  1. #1

    GP100 vs Vintage S&W 686, 19, 66, other? First and Only Revolver

    I've been doing a lot of research (several hours each day reading old threads here and other places) and thinking about revolvers the last month and want to buy one now that I know more about what I want. I do not own a revolver currently and have limited experience with them that has all been negative. I think my experiences will become positive with more time on the platform and an open mind. I am very interested in owning one revolver for these reasons:


    A) The long DA trigger of a revolver will help me learn to shoot my other guns better. 95% of my use case to own a revolver is for training to get me better at shooting my other guns. I plan to dry fire the revolver a lot. On average maybe 1 to 2 hours a month total dry fire is my goal split into 15 minute sessions. I plan to shoot it relatively little. I may take it to the range and put 5 to 10 rounds of 38sp out of it each range trip before I start shooting my other guns, to prime me for the session. I may occasionally do a revolver-only range session, shooting 50 to 100 rounds through it, but that will be pretty sparingly. I plan to put very few 357 mag rounds through it.

    B) My semi auto handguns are all 9mm. 4% of my use case to own a revolver is for outdoor woodsy use for bear defense or "survival" hunting in emergencies (like I'm starving to death and I don't care that my barrel length is below legal minimums for hunting). I would probably carry this revolver out into the woods a lot, but the chances of me ever shooting it in the real world "woods" is almost zero since I probably won't need to shoot a bear and I probably won't be starving to death and be able to shoot a deer given I have no hunting experience. But, I can also say the chances of me ever shooting a person with my CCW Glock is similarly low but I still like carrying it when allowed.

    C) The last 1% of my use case to own a revolver is in case semi-autos get banned and this is all I'm allowed to carry. I mention this as 1% of use case because I don't see that happening although people smarter than me have suggested owning a revolver in case semi-autos are banned, so it's in my head as a possibility. I'd want to own and get good with it in advance of the need.

    Not included in my calculations above are that while I never liked shooting revolvers, I think they are really cool and want one just because. I'm interested in mechanical engineering so "playing" with one in the form of dry practice seems to be a way to have fun while increasing a useful skill of trigger control.

    To sum up, I want a gun that can shoot 357 magnum, shoot it well and accurate, although doesn't need to be able to handle too much of it. I need a gun that I can dry fire an enormous amount, maybe 25 hours total a year for the next 30 years and not break. I have no interest in owning or learning how to use speed loaders. In any situation I would be carrying the revolver, I don't intend to reload it with speed. I mention this only because it appears some guns (and grips) are better suited for speed loaders than others. I have no desire to shoot competitively with a revolver. I have no desire to legally hunt with a revolver (necessitating a 6" barrel in many places).

    I only want to own one revolver, although I'm open to the possibility that I may love it and want more. Please don't count on me ever buying a second revolver when making the recommendation because I have a lot of other gun interests to explore. Here's what my research has come up with:

    The GP100 is the best current gen revolver on the market for my purposes. But, the trigger sucks and the grip options aren't as good as S&W grip options. The GP100 4" Match Champion is on my list. I shot one this week with factory wood grips and I hated the grips. I think I would prefer a fingerless G10 grip for my purposes like VZ makes for S&W but no one seems to make GP100 grips like that. The best GP100 grips that are recommended on PF are the smallerish rubber ones with inserts. I dislike wood or natural material on my guns so I'd have to get one with G10 inserts in the rubber.

    The Vintage S&W 686, up to -4 model seems to be best choice. The downsides being that it's hard to find and if I get a no-dash model, it needs to have the M-stamp for the recall, otherwise I don't want to risk sending it to S&W and having them replace anything with MIM parts or worse, sending me a whole new current gen 686.

    I've also looked at 19/66 and those are interesting. From what I've read the forcing cone on the older K-Frames is not strong and won't hold up to sustained 357 magnum use. That might be okay for me, if I don't plan to shoot much magnums out of it. I plan to shoot just enough magnums to be moderately proficient, and load magnums for outdoor use which would probably never be used.

    The cool part about the 19/66 is that they seem smaller/lighter easier to carry concealed for backwoods use and also to AIWB if semi-autos get banned.

    The main problem with any vintage S&W is that if they break, it's hard to find parts, and also I have to find a good smith because if I send them back to S&W, I will risk not getting my gun returned to me. But, if I buy a good vintage gun that's solid, then maybe me shooting 200 rounds of 38 and 10 rounds of 357 a year for 30 years won't be too hard on it. My main concern is dry firing. Maybe the hours of dryfiring will cause excessive wear?

    I really hated the GP100 I shot this week. The trigger felt terrible. The grip felt bad. But, with the GP100, if it breaks, I can send it back to Ruger and it will come back fine. Less of a maintenance concern than the vintage S&W. Also, I bet the trigger would get a lot better after hours of dry firing it. And, maybe with a different grip, it would feel better in my hand. So I'm open to the GP100 as well in spite of my bad experience with it.

    Also open to anything else, but really like the idea of owning a vintage S&W, it seems like the cool guy thing to do. But the GP100 seems like the practical thing.
    Last edited by powell556; 04-18-2019 at 01:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter
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    You are suffering paralysis by analysis. You've clearly given the process serious thought and I concur with your conclusions. I do suggest that you get "hands on" with as many options as possible. You'll likely find considerable variation within different samples of the same model. With respect to Ruger GP100 grips, Hogue makes some options that would likely work for you: https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/ruger/gp100 . Enjoy your new revolver, whatever it may be. Best, ELN.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    My first one was the GP100 MC. Look up my posts about it (many different threads around here) to save me typing it again. I would strongly recommend it as the right answer for one revolver for life. Grips are discussed, FWIW.

    Triggers are variable and improvable. The trigger in my MC is exceptionally nice, both DA and SA. There is no reason for a GP trigger to not be nicer than most guns if it's given some appropriate TLC.
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  4. #4
    If you really hated the GP-100, why entertain buying it? Cops get stuck with guns they don't like. You don't have to.

    Get an L frame without a lock or a new Smith with a lock. Check the trigger first. Just because it's not a Ruger doesn't mean the trigger won't suck--worst revolver trigger I ever experienced was a S&W Mountain Gun in .45 ACP. Pull the lock out and plug it up if you must. Look at one of the new Colts for comparison.

    Best gun deal I ever made was a four-inch S&W 19-5 for $275, back when four inch 19s and 66s were a dime a dozen in my neck of the woods. Those days are gone. My Smiths are all vintage but they're range and safe queens. My Rugers are for carry (but I also like Rugers, especially the 3-inch GP100s). If I wanted a new hard use Smith, I'd gamble on the new 2.75 inch Model 66.

  5. #5
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    Unless it was a single action that rode on a cowboy's hip, I thought revolvers were kinda dumb when I as a kid. I don't think I was aware of such things as capacity because they could all fire 20-30 rounds during a gunfight on TV, uninterrupted, but I thought all auto pistols looked way cooler than any revolver, most likely heavily influenced by Magnum PI. That thinking changed when I inherited a .357 Highway Patrolman from an uncle, got a few years under my belt, some hours at the range and spent some time studying pistol ballistics.

    I still carry an auto for all of my CCW but I have a S&W 3" 65 that is being brought back from the dead which I hope to use at some point. I'm a S&W guy, even before I owned one, I don't have a good explanation for it. The pre-lock guns are nicer for the most part but S&W isn't making replacement parts for older revolvers. My 686-8 is a newer gun, L frame and will consume any and all .357 Magnum I choose to feed it (.38 Special is for .38 Special guns). I really don't care about MIM parts, it has proven to be a non-issue though I understand they are more difficult to work with a file or stone.

    I've never fired a Ruger revolver. Try to get your hands on both and create an informed opinion.

  6. #6
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    A different grip can make a huge difference. I find the handling and shooting characteristics of the GP100 to be significantly enhanced simply by going to the Compact Ruger grips, available from both shopruger.com and Altamont. Triggerpull can be quite simply improved by judicious experimentation with Wolff main and trigger return springs; the GP100 is very accessible and amenable to this sort of hardware tuning. GP100's can also be made much smoother by an interior clean-up/deburring and action job by a QUALIFIED and experienced Ruger gunsmith.

    Reports from the field recently seem to indicate that for new current production non-Match Champion GP100s and Smiths in general require some warranty/aftermarket cleanup and support.

    My preference and recommendation would be towards the GP100, but a Smith is hardly a bad choice.

    Aftermarket support for both revolvers, both from a warranty/servicing aspect and third-party components is excellent for both revolvers.

    Alternatively, you might want to take a hard look at a used Ruger Security Six; they're intrinsically excellent revolvers, and can be tuned a bit further than a GP100. I much prefer a Security Six to a Smith & Wesson Model 19/66, because I think it's a significantly more durable revolver, and can be tuned very nicely.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 04-18-2019 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #7
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    I have a 686 CS1 that I've ran over 20k rounds through, mostly +P 38 and easily 100k dryfire trigger presses. It finally developed some end shake after running some Skeeter Skelton style loads through it. Parts replacement isn't that big of a deal unless you have to replace the hand or cylinder stop.

    The K frames are pretty good too. I'd not sweat the forcing cone issue.
    Men freely believe that which they desire.
    Julius Caesar

  8. #8
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    For that much dry fire, Snap Caps are your friend.

    If you plan to shoot a lot of 357, an L Frame, or better yet, an N Frame Model 28 would fill the bill. If you plan on sticking with 38 special and 38 +P, a K frame will do.

    If looking for an older pre-lock, pre_MIM, the 3” guns balance well, but fewer were made and they command a premium. The 2” guns are great fun. The 4” probably is the best choice if you don’t want to pay the 3” premium.

    If you’re more interested in using than collecting, this is a very good solution. The lock is easy to replace with a plug, otherwise generally good to go out of the box as they come out of the Performance Center.

    One of our own revolver aficionados uses this for his 50 State legal travel guns IIRC. I’ll let him chim in.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/808974240

    https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearm...-19-carry-comp
    Semper Paratus,

    Steve

  9. #9
    There are fans of the GP100 and SW 686 - both get recommended frequently.

    Personally, I am a SW guy but I wouldn't trash the GP100. I have a modern 3" 686+ and I love it and would absolutely buy it again. I would have no problem buying an older one either.

    Go with whatever fits your hand and you enjoy shooting or which trigger you like the best. If you hated the GP100, don't talk yourself into buying one unless you shoot a different one you like better.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MolonLabe416 View Post
    For that much dry fire, Snap Caps are your friend.

    If you plan to shoot a lot of .357, an L Frame, or better yet, an N Frame Model 28 would fill the bill.
    I wouldn't go with a Model 28 as a dry fire work horse, because you'll probably end up doing a lot of fast DA presses. That will inevitably peen the cylinder notches on the old girl, and that's frankly ungrateful at this point in history. I'm kinda curious about whether it's possible to convert pre-lock guns to 8-shot cylinders, though.

    Personally, I picked up a 6-inch GP100 instead, as a more DA/dry-fire friendly selection that can still handle more .357 than I likely ever will.

    If I was planning to put the most live and dry fire presses possible on a revolver, it would be a 67-5, lock be damned. The .38 Special (shorter) version of the K frame (smaller diameter) cylinder should theoretically peen the cylinder notches the slowest, assuming the heat treat is correct.
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