Their justification is bullshit. It's just a week of masturbation on the taxpayers' dime.
Their justification is bullshit. It's just a week of masturbation on the taxpayers' dime.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...
I can’t think of a single reason where a State, County or local SWAT team would ever need or use that capability. Waste of taxpayer’s money.
Back in the early 90s our team bought rappelling gear and had a little training. I really don't see any part of our jurisdiction where we might have used it, although as a young man I did think it was a lot of fun.
Legitimacy of the need aside, there is a bit more involved in conducting an airborne operation than being able to exit an aircraft.
C Class shooter.
Rappelling is a good team building and stress inoculation tool. Also, unlike the thread topic, I can articulate a limited operational need for rappelling. The problem most SWAT teams have is becoming really proficient at everything you might have a need for vs the things you are likely to need 90% of the time.Originally Posted by BobM
Identifying limited resources (time & money) and prioritizing them is something that MANY places don’t do a good job of, along with risk analysis of the true cost of not having a particular capability or the options to mitigate them.
Fast roping is as far as we ever got with our SRT...and we had fixed wing, Blackhawks, and some wild ass, primarily former Marine pilots based out of our air wing at Homestead AFB.
(I did get my one and only jump done courtesy of the CIA, (in a 182), back in the late 80's. Certainly was pretty anemic compared to the SEALs who were doing HALOs, (day and night), at the same base.)
Last edited by blues; 04-13-2019 at 08:57 AM.
There's nothing civil about this war.
I'd be more curious about who's maintaining the riggers certs, packing, inspecting, maintaining equipment, who's keeping jump master up to par. Also there is a matter of training someone to do all the ops planning and developing a ground tactical plan, landing plan, marshaling etc. there are an ass ton of things that go into airborne operations without even getting into falling out of the plane. Definitely looks like stroking ego on tax payer dime. Absolutely freaking retarded IMHO.
Last edited by Mike C; 04-13-2019 at 10:10 AM.
Reno (NV) PD SWAT lost an officer in 1996 due to a parachute failure during a joint training exercise with Navy SEAL's. I recall reading that the team had previously deployed by parachute during a desert manhunt.
frankly consider a parachute capability for a SWAT team somewhat like full auto capability on rifles. I get that better to have it and not need it than vice versa and one never know what might happen, but I also think one can waste a lot of time and resources on developing a capability very unlikely to be needed.
Send team to air assault school and rappel master training and call it done. These schools are more abundant and are even run by NG units not just active duty so getting to get training, keeping up to date and other logistical aspects are easier. Not to mention UH-60's and some of the other birds are common across NG, Army, Coast Guard, CBP et al. so getting a bird to do ops might be easier as well. Not to mention risk is much lower with something like this and the flight range is pretty decent on these birds, (I fail to see insertion needs being far). Evac, exfil, time on station, observation are all huge pluses. I also see rappelling skills are usable outside assaulting operations, thinking rescue operations as well here. I see minimal risk and downside to this vs fixed wing. In addition; rotary wing if pilots are capable, can be used in densely populated areas for all of these listed tasks. Again fewer downsides to rotary wing.
Last edited by Mike C; 04-13-2019 at 10:46 AM.
I can’t really picture a scenario in which I, as a SWAT officer, would need to jump out of an airplane.
They spent just over $6,000 to send six guys to that training. Last year, I contacted Pat Mac about him coming to our department to put on training for our team. The price he gave me was $6-7k for our entire team. I know which one I would rather spend money on.
Quote from the sheriff:
When he says “Tier One”, he’s referring to the NTOA standards. I would consider our SWAT team a Tier 2 team. The main difference between Tier 1 and Tier 2 teams is that Tier 1 is supposed to have the capability for pre-planned hostage rescues, and Tier 2 is emergency hostage rescue only.“When looking into potential training opportunities, we seek those that can advance our education and abilities to successfully serve the community. In the course provided by Dynamic Solutions Training Group, we found they offered instruction on Tactical High Risk Tracking, Proficient Hostage Rescue and how to vertically insert personnel and supplies into inaccessible areas. A prime example of this is the aftermaths of a hurricane, where accessibility into the disaster area is cut off, and security reinforcements as well as disaster relief supplies are essential. With the Greenville County Sheriff’s Office SWAT team meeting all standards of a Tier One unit, we are often called upon under mutual aid agreements to help those who may have lesser resources, and it is imperative to maintain capabilities to meet all potential needs of the community.”
Greenville SWAT is a part-time team. It is hard for me to imagine a part-time team that stays preficient enough to be effective at pre-planned hostage rescue (the Super Bowl of tactical operations). I made the comment to an FBI SWAT guy once that if we had a real hostage situation, we would call them (a regional team). He said that they would immediately call in their Enhanced SWAT team in Atlanta, who would immediately call HRT.
But, maybe Greenville SWAT really is that badass.
NTOA standards:
http://ntoa.org/pdf/swatstandards.pdf
Article:
https://www.wspa.com/news/6k-spent-o...ies/1143651576
