Great Video on Ballistics by Lucky Gunner!

[entropy]

Nothing wrong with my retort in my opinion.

My original quip was aimed at the 4 layers of denim. While it may indeed be a standard, I have difficulty envisioning anyone so attired doing anything...well beyond what Ralpie’s brother is doing. In the bigger picture, I agree that there is too much wrapping around the axle on mechanics, and way not enough on shot placement and proficiency. I am guilty of an odd sense of humor however.

[TGS]

Nothing wrong with my retort in my opinion.

My original quip was aimed at the 4 layers of denim. While it may indeed be a standard, I have difficulty envisioning anyone so attired doing anything...well beyond what Ralpie’s brother is doing. In the bigger picture, I agree that there is too much wrapping around the axle on mechanics, and way not enough on shot placement and proficiency. I am guilty of an odd sense of humor however.

This is a common misconception. 4LD isn't used because it's a common clothing type for people to wear....it's used as a test because it's a ridiculously hard clothing standard to pass.

If it does well in 4LD, it will do well in any clothing. It's a tough baseline, that's it. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best sort of scenario.

[jetfire]

When it comes to pistol bullets, at least, "Shot placement is king, adequate penetration is queen, and everything else is angels dancing on pinheads."

Yeah but if we all did that we wouldn't be able to have multiple page threads about pistol bullet selection.

[DocGKR]

As noted, four layer denim is a simple engineering test to assess the ability of a service caliber handgun JHP to resist plugging and robustly expand. Service caliber JHP handgun projectiles which pass the 4LD test almost always offer adequate terminal performance in actual defensive field use.

[BBMW]

Then why aren't all LE organizations saving money by using FMJs?

When it comes to pistol bullets, at least, "Shot placement is king, adequate penetration is queen, and everything else is angels dancing on pinheads."

[DocGKR]

Really?

The answer is quite obvious...

[WobblyPossum]

Then why aren't all LE organizations saving money by using FMJs?

Due to their construction, quality hollow point bullets are much better at penetrating intermediate barriers and still retaining enough mass and velocity to reach the needed 12-18” of penetration in the target afterwards than FMJ bullets are. The idea that FMJ pistol bullets by default offer better penetration than bonded defensive bullets is a myth that needs to die.

[Tamara]

Then why aren't all LE organizations saving money by using FMJs?

In addition to the answers given above, a quality JHP, like the 124gr +P GDHP, will be found just under the skin on the far side of the bad guy, tangled in the clothes just on the far side of the bad guy, or on the ground three feet away on the other side of the bad guy.

A 124gr FMJ, OTOH, will go through one dude and well into or through the dude behind him, who may not need any bullets in him.

[the Schwartz]

A 124gr FMJ, OTOH, will go through one dude and well into or through the dude behind him, who may not need any bullets in him.

It'd be convenient if we could get the bad guys to line up one behind the next, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I know. Not happening....

[Tamara]

It'd be convenient if we could get the bad guys to line up one behind the next, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I know. Not happening....

Traditionally, that parking space is reserved for buses full of nuns and orphans.