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Thread: Julian Assange arrested

  1. #21
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STI View Post
    Remind me why we're celebrating his extradition...
    Because someone who knows a shitload more about computers than I do told me that Assange's stuff was being hosted/stored on Russian computers. A few years ago, there was a large trove of Russian documents out there that Wikileaks refused to release "because they couldn't be authenticated." (Code for 'we'd rather not drink polonium-laced tea.")

    That the Russians released a statement expressing hope that Assange's rights will be respected is telling.

    Wikileaks would seem to have been, at least at times, a Russian false-flag/sock-puppet operation.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    Because someone who knows a shitload more about computers than I do told me that Assange's stuff was being hosted/stored on Russian computers. A few years ago, there was a large trove of Russian documents out there that Wikileaks refused to release "because they couldn't be authenticated." (Code for 'we'd rather not drink polonium-laced tea.")

    That the Russians released a statement expressing hope that Assange's rights will be respected is telling.

    Wikileaks would seem to have been, at least at times, a Russian false-flag/sock-puppet operation.
    Portraying someone like Julian Assange as the Russian bogeyman is CIA Misdirection 101.
    Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer.

  3. #23
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David C. View Post
    Portraying someone like Julian Assange as the Russian bogeyman is CIA Misdirection 101.
    That's what They want you to think!
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  4. #24
    I suspect his arrest has made some very powerful people very uncomfortable. I'm anxious to see how this plays out.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by David C. View Post
    Portraying someone like Julian Assange as the Russian bogeyman is CIA Misdirection 101.
    I don't think @Stephanie B is portraying him as a "Russian bogeyman", though she's fully capable of explaining herself (and correcting me if I'm wrong). It is worth pointing out that Assange's actions directly benefitted Russia's interests and it's reasonable to assume that he may have had their help.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    For me it comes down to the rule of law and the right of privacy vs. 'the ends justify the means'.

    I agree that it's a good thing for people to have information about their leaders (or foreign leaders) or even hate groups or subversive organizations. But by the same token, if steps aren't taken to ensure that the rights of individuals, even despicable individuals, are protected with the same constitutional umbrella that we would claim for ourselves...then what are we to fall back upon when we are the victims?

    Another issue is the ease with which data is manipulated and corrupted in written or graphic form. How is one to vet the information being provided by folks like Assange? Against what standard if that is the only venue the information is coming from? How can one be certain of authenticity...and that key paragraphs, for example, haven't been altered to satisfy a political agenda?

    Just some quick thoughts on why it's a complex matter.
    I agree it is complex, but I also see the flip side of your argument. Namely, lots of things that should not be classified are classified so that "Joe and Jane Sixpack" cannot learn about them. Not because of national security, but because the people in power want to project their view of the world and do not want evidence of contradictory views to be in public to drive/shift the narrative. And your questions about whether the data is valid are good ones, but they should also apply to what our elected officials tell us. Classifying information is a powerful tool because it limits the transfer of that information. And many things need to be classified, such as weapons specs and plans to deal with various crises. But I think you would agree that many things that have been classified are classified only to help those in power reach their own goals, goals that may not be in the best interest of the country. And, on the flip side, we see how some of those people in power treat classified information, either with contempt (Secretary Clinton) or a means to bed a woman (General Petraeus).

    I also am not sure if Julian Assange is a modern Carl Bernstein/Bob Woodward or if he is just a crook. Whatever he is, he does not seem to motivated by money or power in the sense of control. For that reason, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    And no doubt that this is one Gordian Knot, writ large.

  7. #27
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Assange outed Iraqis and Afghans working with us. That'll do. 50 years, boom.
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  8. #28
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    I agree it is complex, but I also see the flip side of your argument. Namely, lots of things that should not be classified are classified so that "Joe and Jane Sixpack" cannot learn about them. Not because of national security, but because the people in power want to project their view of the world and do not want evidence of contradictory views to be in public to drive/shift the narrative. And your questions about whether the data is valid are good ones, but they should also apply to what our elected officials tell us. Classifying information is a powerful tool because it limits the transfer of that information. And many things need to be classified, such as weapons specs and plans to deal with various crises. But I think you would agree that many things that have been classified are classified only to help those in power reach their own goals, goals that may not be in the best interest of the country. And, on the flip side, we see how some of those people in power treat classified information, either with contempt (Secretary Clinton) or a means to bed a woman (General Petraeus).

    I also am not sure if Julian Assange is a modern Carl Bernstein/Bob Woodward or if he is just a crook. Whatever he is, he does not seem to motivated by money or power in the sense of control. For that reason, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    And no doubt that this is one Gordian Knot, writ large.
    I had TS clearance and I will agree that many items that crossed my desk during investigations were hardly what I would call earth shattering or the type of info which, in the wrong hands, might bring us to our knees. But I also cannot generalize such to the bulk of TS material extant.

    Fewer have a more cynical attitude or jaundiced eye when it comes to gov't and agency leadership than I, and I paid the price during my career.

    I'm not prepared (at this juncture) to consign Assange to the fires. I'm just saying that actions have consequences and he has to answer. Perhaps if his answers are good enough a jury will find on his behalf. Neither am I ready to judge his actions as innocent or devoid of personal interest or potential gain. Let the facts come out and the chips fall where they may.
    Last edited by blues; 04-11-2019 at 06:20 PM.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    ...Assange's stuff was being hosted/stored on Russian computers. ...
    If you were in wikileak's shoes, where would store your data instead?

  10. #30
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I had TS clearance and I will agree that many items that crossed my desk during investigations were hardly what I would call earth shattering or the type of info which, in the wrong hands, might bring us to our knees. But I also cannot generalize such to the bulk of TS material extant.

    Fewer have a more cynical attitude or jaundiced eye when it comes to gov't and agency leadership than I, and I paid the price during my career.

    I'm not prepared (at this juncture) to consign Assange to the fires. I'm just saying that actions have consequences and he has to answer. Perhaps if his answers are good enough a jury will find on his behalf. Neither am I ready to judge his actions as innocent or devoid of personal interest or potential gain. Let the facts come out and the chips fall where they may.
    Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Much appreciated.

    One line that struck me from an Assange interview was why he released everything Wikileaks acquired from a source, knowing that he could possibly be responsible for the death of people. His answer, paraphrased, was he wanted people to judge the import of the data his organization had rather than be a censor of who can be trusted with what. Naive, quite likely. Idealistic, certainly. A crime, technically, yes. But if I was on that jury, it would come down to intent. And, like you, I do not know where I stand.

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