.22 Training Pistol - anything really worthwhile?

[Jim Watson]

I would love a Glock 17 .22 upper that would accept MOS plates or capable of being milled for a RDS. I don't think it exists.

My goals would be to 1) improve my draw to 1st shot time; 2) Improve my first shot accuracy from draw; 3) Improve trigger control and press precision; 4) trigger control after moving the gun to alternating targets. These drills would not need a real recoil to learn from. I'm sure I can do these with dry fire, but I'm too lazy to cycle the slide each time and I would like to see proof on paper (ie the bullet holes) vs trusting my eyes following the dot.

My application exactly. I often warm up with a .22 and then transition to centerfire. I don't double tap because that would give me funny ideas about recoil control.

I think you could get an optic on your .22 conversion with one of those mounts that attaches to the frame rail and does not touch the slide. Not as low as a MOS but as close a simulation as I can think of.

[AdioSS]

I agree with many here on the benefits. I have an AA kit for my 19 as well as a 15-22. I do need to fix how I use them though. While I think they can be valuable tools, I tend to just do mag dumps with them because they’re fun and cheap to shoot. Not very productive.

I’d love to put a MRDS on the AA but it’s so sensitive to any pressure from my thumbs that I wonder if it’d be able to fully cycle with the additional weight.

I bet you could get it to cycle just fine if you play with lighter recoil spring weights

[ASH556]

I like the idea of the Beretta kit, but not the idea of all the carbon in my Beretta and having to clean it all the time. Plus, to get the threaded barrel is an extra $125. So, that's probably out.

I worked with the M&P 22 today on draw speed (draw one to 8" circle). After 30 reps, I decided to shoot some Garcia dots to work visual sight tracking and had a murderous time trying to hit the stupid 2" dot. I reverted to slow fire to see just what might be going on and when I couldn't hold a 1" group with the stupid thing, I decided I might just throw it in the trash.

5 rounds at 1" square, 7yd (sights are off too):



By contrast as evidence that it's not the shooter (me), 10 rounds 9mm fired double-action (thus requiring significantly better trigger control than the M&P22) at a 1" square at 7yds:



Also, as evidence that it's not the ammo, 5 rounds fired from an M&P 15-22 carbine offhand at 7yds (again, GI-esque trigger vs very light trigger on the pistol) while also estimating holdover, so not even a truly consistent point of aim:



So, my requirements are as follows:

A .22lr caliber semi-automatic handgun capable of:

1. accepting a suppressor with 1/2x28 thread
2. obtaining a holster without too much fuss
3. accepting a Surefire X300U light
4. reasonable accuracy (2" at 25yds)
5. teaching new shooters
6. training myself cost effectively on all the things that .22 trainers are good at
7. costing less than $500, $350 preferred

RDS is a "maybe" consideration, but definitely not a must-have

Recommendations?

[hufnagel]

@ASH556
https://grabagun.com/beretta-92fsr-2...-5-3-15-1.html



for your list, everything but #4 I think it satisfies. I can't speak to how tight a group you can shoot at 25yrd, as I don't.
comes with fake suppressor and suppressor height sights already installed.

eta: deleted 2nd link; wasn't actually threaded.

[jandbj]

At the risk of being burned as a heretic... unless/until glock drops a factory rimfire, the Taurus tx22 may actually be a good gun for this role. Handled one at a local shop and it felt surprisingly good. Allegedly it’s going to be available without the manual safety at some point. Must be cause these are actually made in Georgia now. Maybe Glock rubbed off on them.

[ASH556]

Well y'all, I was wrong (imagine that! )

It was the ammo. I mean, the sights were off too and I fixed that, but today I went to the range with 3 different 22lr loads to try: Federal Automatch, Aguila Standard Velocity, and CCI Minimag.

Bottom line is that once the sights were zeroed, the Minimag and Aguila actually shoot pretty dang well. The Automatch just sucks in this gun. Oddly enough, I've got some years old data from my 10/22 target model that the Automatch shot really well in it. Makes me want to break it out again. Maybe the quality has gone downhill or maybe this pistol just hates it.

Regardless, I'm now pleased as punch to keep my M&P22 pistol as it now checks all my boxes and I already have it and support gear (mags, holster). It's not a match gun, but it's definitely on par with a service pistol for accuracy and that's really what I want in a trainer.

7yds:




25yds:




7yd freestyle, SHO, WHO:

[OlongJohnson]

The powdercoated CCI stuff keyholes (7 of 20 rounds) at 7 yards from my P250 .22LR. Haven't tried it in a Buck Mark yet.

[Duelist]

Well y'all, I was wrong (imagine that! )

It was the ammo. I mean, the sights were off too and I fixed that, but today I went to the range with 3 different 22lr loads to try: Federal Automatch, Aguila Standard Velocity, and CCI Minimag.

Bottom line is that once the sights were zeroed, the Minimag and Aguila actually shoot pretty dang well. The Automatch just sucks in this gun. Oddly enough, I've got some years old data from my 10/22 target model that the Automatch shot really well in it. Makes me want to break it out again. Maybe the quality has gone downhill or maybe this pistol just hates it.

Regardless, I'm now pleased as punch to keep my M&P22 pistol as it now checks all my boxes and I already have it and support gear (mags, holster). It's not a match gun, but it's definitely on par with a service pistol for accuracy and that's really what I want in a trainer.

7yds:




25yds:




7yd freestyle, SHO, WHO:

Different .22 ammo works differently in different guns. They tend to be very picky.

[Sal Picante]

I have a Smith M&P 22 full size. I even have a Blade-Tech holster for it. It has a set of real steel 3-dot sights from a 9mm M&P on it (yes, they required some fitting). It has a threaded barrel and is hella fun to shoot suppressed.

However, I just can't really get with it as a "training" gun. I'm not sure why it is. Maybe it's the too-easy trigger pull. Maybe it's the lack of recoil. I keep trying to talk myself into taking it to the range to save on 9mm ammo, but every time I've done it, even working draws and stuff I just feel like I'm cheating and wasting ammo and time, not really building any skill.

1. Am I just doing something wrong? IE, I need a practice change.
2. Am I using the wrong gun? IE, I need an equipment change.
3. Is there just no replacing the real thing and I'd be better off dryfiring in an indoor range (because that's the time and place I have available - lunch breaks at work and can't dryfire in the office)?

Thanks!

So... I really like training with a .22 and have done quite a bit of it in the past. I use it specifically for 3 things:
1.) Draws and working the timer on draws. Allows a lot of reps with real feedback. You can really shoot an entire brick and see if things are better/worse.

2.) Working on 1-2 shot movement drills (e.g. "Calvin Ball") with realistic feedback from the steel & timer on steel. The shooting is almost incidental (other than just building solid consistency on the hits) Doing simple "bread-and-butter" arrays over and over and over again really helps lock in good movement.

3.) Pushing the accuracy requirements for the .22 - the longer the aiming process, the less recoil control seems to matter (within reason). If you work this in conjunction with point #2, it is really quite nice.


Yeah, the triggers aren't the same and the recoil isn't the same and the POI/POA issues are a bit off. Just don't worry about that. Figure out what works well enough and make it happen...

My Beretta conversion kit does pretty well with AutoMatch - if I setup 6" plates at 15-20 yards, it was a good accuracy test.

[Super J]

I have a .22 conversion kit for a Glock 17 made by Advantage Arms. It has served me well.

http://www.advantagearms.com/mm5/mer...egory_Code=GLK