.22 Training Pistol - anything really worthwhile?

[jeep45238]

So a little revival of this. I had been using a GSG 1911-22 since I had been shooting 1911's for a year, but no longer do so. I grabbed a Taurus Tx22, as it most closely correlates to the VP9 grip/trigger, and the price for the gun/trigger/flat wire recoil spring, and adjustable rear sight was hard to argue with. I'll be getting the red dot version once it's on the market.

It uses a glock front sight, and a proprietary adjustable rear sight. The rear sight width appears to be the same as a factory glock sight, and it uses a factory glock sight. That said, is there any front-sight only upgrade on glocks that improve the sight picture?

[peterb]

http://pistol-training.com/articles/...tols-pros-cons

Skills you can work on effectively with a .22 equivalent to your normal pistol:

marksmanship
strong- and weak-hand only shooting
draw stroke
reloads
transitions
judgmental shooting
shooting on the move… With SOM, the line between good .22 training and bad .22 training is definitely easy to cross. But like transition drills, SOM training can benefit from a .22 in terms of learning how to move your feet and position your body for a stable shooting platform on the move.

Skills you should not practice with a .22lr handgun:

recoil management
sight tracking
rapid multiple shots on a single target
failure drills

[Bergeron]

I think an important question on this topic is do you really want to shoot .22?

I like shooting .22, a .22 rifle was my first firearm, and a .22 pistol was my first handgun. I like how cheap .22 is to shoot, and I like how friendly it is to shoot .22 with people who are either newbies or occasional shooters. No matter what I've been focusing on shooting in my life, I've always been shooting rimfire.

At this point, my .22s are either built-up dedicated guns with similiar actions as my centerfires (1911s) or conversion slides to my centerfire guns (Glocks)

I believe Ben Stoeger put quite a few rounds through his .22 Beretta when training.

The interesting thing there is that despite his experience Stoeger does not recommend .22 for training. I'm also a big fan of CoolFire, and it keeps your trigger pull and sights, while cycling the action, resetting the trigger, and giving you a laser hit.

I would love a Glock 17 .22 upper that would accept MOS plates or capable of being milled for a RDS. I don't think it exists.

Jagerwerks will mill an Advantage Arms slide for a RDS. I had it done for a 19.4 AA slide.

[Jeff22]

Jagerwerks will mill an Advantage Arms slide for a RDS. I had it done for a 19.4 AA slide.

I've had an Advantage Arms conversion unit for seven or eight years. Even using Mini Mags, the slide sometimes does not go fully into battery. How well does the gun function with the added weight of an RDS on the slide?

[Alan0354]

I have a Smith M&P 22 full size. I even have a Blade-Tech holster for it. It has a set of real steel 3-dot sights from a 9mm M&P on it (yes, they required some fitting). It has a threaded barrel and is hella fun to shoot suppressed.

However, I just can't really get with it as a "training" gun. I'm not sure why it is. Maybe it's the too-easy trigger pull. Maybe it's the lack of recoil. I keep trying to talk myself into taking it to the range to save on 9mm ammo, but every time I've done it, even working draws and stuff I just feel like I'm cheating and wasting ammo and time, not really building any skill.

1. Am I just doing something wrong? IE, I need a practice change.
2. Am I using the wrong gun? IE, I need an equipment change.
3. Is there just no replacing the real thing and I'd be better off dryfiring in an indoor range (because that's the time and place I have available - lunch breaks at work and can't dryfire in the office)?

Thanks!

I practice mostly with my 22LR Ruger Mark II, To me, it's the same as shooting with my 45 Gold Cup. Yes, recovery time after a shot is longer with more recoil, but aiming and shooting is the same regardless of 22 or 45.

Dry firing is useless, it will not train anything. Has to be really shooting that you can see result.

One thing it's important if you shoot like 25yds target, you have to have an accurate enough gun. If you have one that is not accurate, you really don't know whether it's you or the gun when you cannot hit the black center.

[Bergeron]

I've had an Advantage Arms conversion unit for seven or eight years. Even using Mini Mags, the slide sometimes does not go fully into battery. How well does the gun function with the added weight of an RDS on the slide?

I wish that I could tell you. I'm having my 19.4 Rolands getting worked on at the gunsmith, and once Jagerwerks sent me the slide back, I shipped it up to the 'smith and haven't got the set back yet.

I've heard that issue before, and I'm not worried. Yet. The RMR only weighs 1.17 ounces, and there's some weight coming off the slide to make the cuts anyway. I don't know the weight of the AA 19 kit compared to the 17 or 20 kit, but I figure it's probably (?) around an ounce, so that's about what I'll get adding the RMR.

When (if? it's been a while) I get my 19s back, I can measure some weights. My sister has a 19.4 AA kit w/ steel sights, and (once I have it all back in my hands) I could compare the weight of her slide with irons to mine with the optic.

I used Automatch and Slip2000 before I sent my kit off, and it was able to go through the various 10, 15, and 25 round magazines for a brick of Automatch without issues. When I have it all back I can compare.

Of course, I can't commit to deadlines, I'm at my gunsmith's mercy in that regard.

Edit to add: If you're not going fully into battery, maybe a heavier recoil spring is called for, or maybe there's some friction in the system that judicious polishing could address?

[19852+]

I don't use my AA .22 kit for a 1911 very much, but I do like it a lot and it runs great with ammo it likes. We can debate the value of a .22 for training, I think it has value, but the value of the trainer comes into play when teaching a new shooter.

[BillSWPA]

Here is another thing a .22 can do: help me persuade my daughter to come with me to the range to practice her own shooting. She is very sensitive to loud noises, and is unhappy when someone is shooting larger calibers nearby even while she is wearing good quality electronic earmuffs with foam plugs underneath. If I am shooting only a .22, I am much more likely to get her to come with me.

I have been working my DA trigger squeeze using a S&W K-22, and that practice is really helping my trigger squeeze, particularly when shooting strong hand only or weak hand only. A relative recently accompanied me to the range, and was experiencing inconsistent hits with his Springfield XD9, in a manner that indicated trigger squeeze issues. At the end of that range trip, I had him shoot a couple of cylinders from the K-22. The first cylinder resulted in mostly misses on a 25 yard bullseye, but he showed significant improvement with the second cylinder. Unfortunately we did not have time to return to the XD, but I would be willing to bet that his groups would quickly tighten and center after practicing with the K-22 trigger.

I also now have a G44, which allows me to practice drawing from a holster against a timer with a gun that closely mimics my G19.

[DDTSGM]

So a little revival of this. I had been using a GSG 1911-22 since I had been shooting 1911's for a year, but no longer do so. I grabbed a Taurus Tx22, as it most closely correlates to the VP9 grip/trigger, and the price for the gun/trigger/flat wire recoil spring, and adjustable rear sight was hard to argue with. I'll be getting the red dot version once it's on the market.

It uses a glock front sight, and a proprietary adjustable rear sight. The rear sight width appears to be the same as a factory glock sight, and it uses a factory glock sight. That said, is there any front-sight only upgrade on glocks that improve the sight picture?

You could go with a fiberoptic from Dawson or another maker - you'd need to know the height of the Glock sight Taurus uses - most adjustable rears wouldn't work with the stock Glock front sight height.

[DDTSGM]

Dry firing is useless, it will not train anything. Has to be really shooting that you can see result.

You aren't going to find a lot of folks on this forum that will agree with you on that topic.