The Sanford Florida incident....

[bdcheung]

Is it sad I made assumptions about zimmerman's personality and mindset based off of the information he used a keltec 9mm?

Zimmerman managed to kill Martin with one shot.

There's only one handgun that can do that.

The Judge.

[rsa-otc]

My take is as follows:

- Zimmerman was OK to continue follow (not chase) someone who is "Suspicious".
- Was wrong to get out of the SUV to confront the teen. What was the teen doing other than walking down the road that would make Zimmerman think that he had to confront the teen right away.
- Once he confronted the teen, where was the disparity of force that would justify the use of Lethal Force. Going only by the photo's shown so far the was no size or age disparity. No mention of any special training that would make the teen especially dangerous like being a trained boxer or Black Belt (and under the "Reasonable Man Doctrine" how would Zimmerman know of such training other than he was getting his backside handed to him). No reported weapons of any sort.
- I have not taken the time yet to listen to any recordings, but if the reports are true that the teen could be heard begging for his life between shot one and shot two, even if he could claim shot one was justified, shot two wasn't; Zimmerman is done.

It's my belief Zimmerman will eventually be charged with Homicide. Starting with leaving the truck to confront the teen everything Zimmerman was reported doing seems just plain wrong.

[secondstoryguy]

Sidebar: "White hispanic" is also used by the U.S. Census Bureau. "White" is a race, "hispanic" is an ethnicity. So one can be both white and hispanic.

http://www.census.gov/population/race/

I'm confused So I'm an American with Scots-Irish and German blood, WTF am I? Just white I guess.

[Sparks2112]

There was only one shot afaik.

My take is as follows:

- Zimmerman was OK to continue follow (not chase) someone who is "Suspicious".
- Was wrong to get out of the SUV to confront the teen. What was the teen doing other than walking down the road that would make Zimmerman think that he had to confront the teen right away.
- Once he confronted the teen, where was the disparity of force that would justify the use of Lethal Force. Going only by the photo's shown so far the was no size or age disparity. No mention of any special training that would make the teen especially dangerous like being a trained boxer or Black Belt (and under the "Reasonable Man Doctrine" how would Zimmerman know of such training other than he was getting his backside handed to him). No reported weapons of any sort.
- I have not taken the time yet to listen to any recordings, but if the reports are true that the teen could be heard begging for his life between shot one and shot two, even if he could claim shot one was justified, shot two wasn't; Zimmerman is done.

It's my belief Zimmerman will eventually be charged with Homicide. Starting with leaving the truck to confront the teen everything Zimmerman was reported doing is just plain seems wrong.

[TCinVA]

I'm reluctant to make a lot of judgments about Zimmerman because what I'm being fed...and that's exactly what news reports are, selectively fed information...comes from sources that routinely get very important things wrong. He could be getting a bum wrap from a press that loves nothing better than to find racism and turn it into headlines. How many young black men were killed by other young black men on the day that this incident happened? ...but you don't hear about them.

Much of the news we hear is being heard precisely because it fits someone's agenda. We've seen in countless reports on self defense just how unbelievably bad the reporting can be and how important facts that completely change the situation get ignored or glossed over.

As an example, a reporter for one of the more disreputable rags in Virginia wrote a story about that nice smiling happy dude I mentioned earlier. The story was about how he made everyone happy and how he was always such a good boy and how nobody could imagine why anyone would want to kill him. The kid was practically a candidate for sainthood! In the last sentence of the story it mentioned that the kid died in the parking lot of a bank and that the police found a .22 caliber rifle on the scene with his fingerprints on it. Translation: Mr. Happy Sainthood there tried to hold somebody up with a rifle. The person pulled a gun and shot him in a legitimate act of self defense.

...but you'd never have figured that out by reading the other 99% of the story. It was a deliberate attempt at propaganda by a paper that hated the idea of concealed carry in the Commonwealth.

So I read the stuff about Zimmerman with a bucket full of salt handy. It sure sounds like he was a yahoo who acted a darn fool and ended up killing an innocent kid. And hell...it may even be true. If it is true, then he played stupid games and he's about to find out how much being squeezed by the wheels of justice hurts. Even if it's not true he's still in for something that's somewhat less pleasant than a rectal exam from a cactus from the sound of things.

[JeffJ]

With the caveat that I obviously don't know what happened here:

If you confront someone physically - grab, hit, whatever - and then get your ass kicked because you bit off more than you can chew and shoot them - Is that self defense?

It sure seems like Zimmerman instigated the whole thing, not on his property (I don't know the legal standing of neighborhood watch) - Not in any kind of uniform or with any kind of authority tried to detain someone who was guilty of WWB (Walking while black) and the kid decided not to let the crazy man tell him what to do.

Maybe more info will come out, and hopefully I'm dead wrong. But initial reports sure look bad for this guy.

[bdcheung]

If you confront someone physically - grab, hit, whatever - and then get your ass kicked because you bit off more than you can chew and shoot them - Is that self defense?

In my opinion, and by my interpretation of Florida statute:

no.

In the situation you proposed, Zimmerman would have had every obligation to disengage and flee.

[rsa-otc]

There was only one shot afaik.

Going by this quote:
"A few minutes later, Zimmerman chased Martin and shot him twice, killing him. Zimmerman does not dispute any of these facts, according to reports, but he says he acted in self-defense. "

"According to the Daily Mail, Martin's parents said after hearing an audio they are more convinced then ever that a crime took place.

"You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life," said Natalie Jackson, the family attorney. "Then you hear a second shot."

http://www.businessinsider.com/an-un...charged-2012-3

[JeffJ]

In my opinion, and by my interpretation of Florida statute:

no.

In the situation you proposed, Zimmerman would have had every obligation to disengage and flee.

I agree obviously, that's why I posed the question that way. However, while I think that looking at the situation and examine hypotheticals is a good mental exercise for anyone that carrier a weapon (or doesn't for that matter) -- I want to throw out there, one more time...

TC is absolutely right - we don't know what happened. News reports, especially early ones, are a horrible source for facts and we should all caution ourselves to not form strong opions based on incomplete informaion.

[rsa-otc]

I'm reluctant to make a lot of judgments about Zimmerman because what I'm being fed...and that's exactly what news reports are, selectively fed information...comes from sources that routinely get very important things wrong."

That's why I used the wording "reported".