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Thread: The Sanford Florida incident....

  1. #111
    Member Zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    But Zimmerman's case is nothing like the one just referenced in Conyers/Covington is it?
    Nope... No one "manned up" to run to the screams for help.

    A problem avoided is not really a problem. Zimmerman purposefully stomped in dog poop and now is wondering why his shoe stinks.

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell, Esq. View Post
    Everyone is into the animal metaphor thing, so here's mine: Be a house cat.

    Avoid problems, and when they come to you hide, and have the bigger, dumber dog or the equally stupid human handle it for you if at all possible.

    If that isn't possible, then go over, around, under or through the problem as violently as possible.

    If you need to attack, then strike without warning, and never, ever fight...just do the job and run like hell.

    Then, look cute and cuddly, vomit on the floor (which the human will clean up) then lay in the sun till someone drops catnip on you, then get hight and twitch for an hour.
    Awesome. Unfortunately, "House Cat" doesn't make cool patches, cool screen names on forums (I fucking hate, absolutely despise, the word "sheepdog" and as soon as I see it as a poster's name, I usually scroll right on by), or sound as cool in internet rants about what a bad mofo you are/intend to be.

    TC and Mitchell made pretty much the checkmate posts in this thread (I assume this is the right term. I dunno, 'cuz sheepdogs know chess is gay, therefore I don't know anything about it).

  3. #113
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Now Obama is involved.

    I think that Zimmerman is up shits creek.

  4. #114
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Now Obama is involved.

    I think that Zimmerman is up ***** creek.
    I'll bet I can name somebody who wishes like heck that he'd just stayed in his truck and Been A Good Witness right about now.

    It's hard to think through all the possible externalities ahead of time, and sometimes you're just going to wind up stepping in front of that truck whether you want to or not, but it does make one think.

    I had a friend once who bought a Chicom AK when they first started importing them. Folding spike bayonet and the works. He told me that when he was home from school, he kept it with a full mag, "just in case someone broke in". (He was, I guess, 18 or 19 at the time.)

    Thing is, dude collected militaria. Mostly WWII. Some British, American, and Japanese stuff, but also a lot of German. Now he was no Nazi or anything, in fact, he was more of a hippie/beatnik type, but he just liked war stuff, and it caught him completely off guard when I asked him how the local paper would portray it if he ever shot a home intruder with a skin tone any darker than his own somewhat pale beige. With an AK. And had a swastika flag and a couple SS uniforms in the closet.
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  5. #115
    Member Zhurdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    I'll bet I can name somebody who wishes like heck that he'd just stayed in his truck and Been A Good Witness right about now.

    It's hard to think through all the possible externalities ahead of time, and sometimes you're just going to wind up stepping in front of that truck whether you want to or not, but it does make one think.

    I had a friend once who bought a Chicom AK when they first started importing them. Folding spike bayonet and the works. He told me that when he was home from school, he kept it with a full mag, "just in case someone broke in". (He was, I guess, 18 or 19 at the time.)

    Thing is, dude collected militaria. Mostly WWII. Some British, American, and Japanese stuff, but also a lot of German. Now he was no Nazi or anything, in fact, he was more of a hippie/beatnik type, but he just liked war stuff, and it caught him completely off guard when I asked him how the local paper would portray it if he ever shot a home intruder with a skin tone any darker than his own somewhat pale beige. With an AK. And had a swastika flag and a couple SS uniforms in the closet.
    Perception is reality.

  6. #116
    Member rsa-otc's Avatar
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    The evidence that I have seen "so far" makes me believe at this point Zimmerman has a big problem. Given the reaction to this shooting, I am scared of what is going to happen if after all the "Investigations" are complete and the decision is that Zimmerman is in the clear. Is the family and more importantly the community at large going to accept that decision or has public opinion gotten to the point we will see the LA/Miami riots all over again?
    Scott
    Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
    Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."

  7. #117
    Member rsa-otc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Now Obama is involved.

    I think that Zimmerman is up shits creek.
    I was prepared to say that all Obama did was throw gas on the fire, but after listening to his statement I think he did a fair job. I still think he could have done more to quell the public's uproar.

    Zimmerman may well be thrown to the wolves if only for political reasons.
    Scott
    Only Hits Count - The Faster the Hit the more it Counts!!!!!!; DELIVER THE SHOT!
    Stephen Hillier - "An amateur practices until he can do it right, a professional practices until he can't do it wrong."

  8. #118
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    Mr. Zimmerman's predicament here brings up some pretty important lessons for those inclined to learn from the circumstances of others.

    Let's stipulate for the sake of illustration that Mr. Zimmerman's actions were 100% justifiable, and that at the moment he pulled the trigger he was in reasonable fear for his life.

    Was it worth it?

    Look at what he's facing now. He's been branded a murderer. Worse, he's been branded a racist murderer. Where a rap artist or NBA star who kills somebody will be forgiven in the public consciousness as long as their new album is critically acclaimed or their stats are good, Mr. Zimmerman's life from now on will come to be defined by this moment when he killed what a huge chunk of the population will only ever believe was an innocent young black boy who was doing nothing wrong. Mr. Zimmerman is looking down the pointy end of criminal and civil liability out the wazoo. His physical and financial freedom are both now at stake. There's enormous pressure in some communities to basically lynch the man because some communities won't care about the facts, only that the outcome wasn't desirable in their view. Hell, even among self defense enthusiasts this guy's getting raked over the coals. (Perhaps deservedly...we don't know all the facts yet) If a guy who claims he acts in self defense isn't getting a whole lot of sympathy from people who are all about self defense, what hope does he have with a jury?

    All of this...for what?

    This is the bit about self defense that lots of people on the internet don't get. In all their "be a man!" and "sheepdog!" chest thumping, they never seem to get around to the question of what it's like to live with the aftermath of using lethal force. It's not pretty. It's expensive. It's time consuming. It is life-changing...and not in the Oprah self help guru sort of way. It introduces unbelievable levels of stress into the mix that you can hardly appreciate if you haven't been at the center of it before. It can ruin marriages. It can break apart families. It can scatter friends to the four winds.

    I know some people who have had to use lethal force to defend themselves and have had to face long drawn out investigations and litigation over the incidents. It put unbelievable stress on their lives. I asked one police officer how he managed to hold it together after having gone through a post-shooting horror story that makes the blood run cold. His answer?

    "Because I know with absolute certainty that I did the right thing."

    If you deal with something you had to deal with because it was thrust upon you, leaving you with no choice in the matter...well...it's probably a lot easier to live with the aftermath if it goes to Zimmerman levels. So we would do well to ask ourselves if whatever it is we are about to do is worth living a Zimmerman.

    I'd gladly risk a Zimmerman situation if it meant saving the life of a friend or a loved one. Over petty theft, though? Not so much.
    Zimmerman screwed it up about as bad as someone could. You make great points but if one is applying them to any and all interventions then it is too much of a reach IMO. The bolded bottom line quote is definitely the bottom line.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    I had a friend once who bought a Chicom AK when they first started importing them. Folding spike bayonet and the works. He told me that when he was home from school, he kept it with a full mag, "just in case someone broke in". (He was, I guess, 18 or 19 at the time.)

    Thing is, dude collected militaria. Mostly WWII. Some British, American, and Japanese stuff, but also a lot of German. Now he was no Nazi or anything, in fact, he was more of a hippie/beatnik type, but he just liked war stuff, and it caught him completely off guard when I asked him how the local paper would portray it if he ever shot a home intruder with a skin tone any darker than his own somewhat pale beige. With an AK. And had a swastika flag and a couple SS uniforms in the closet.
    Different situation. In the case of a break in to an occupied dweling the person in the house is in fear of his life. There are laws in the books even in places like NY & California that allow you to use deadly physical force to terminate the burglary of an occupied dwelling. I can find many cases of people who used AKs and ARs to shoot and even kill burglars/home invaders without suffering any consequences.

    Collectors collect. The Axis souvenirs might have been problematic, but they don't abrogate a person's right to self defense nor make it legal people to burglarize or home invade them.

    The person's actions and circumstances that led up to the shooting are more important. There are at least two cases of people who used SKS' to shoot someone who wound up facing murder charges. Both of them left the safety of their home with the SKS to confront someone who was not a direct threat to them and wound up shooting and killing that person. It wasn't the 'evil' gun that led to their trials but the questionable act of leaving the safety of their home to ocnfront someone who wasn't at the time a direct threat to them or anyone else.

  10. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Zimmerman screwed it up about as bad as someone could. You make great points but if one is applying them to any and all interventions then it is too much of a reach IMO. The bolded bottom line quote is definitely the bottom line.
    I think TCinVA is referring to avoiding getting involved in questionable situations where you can safey leave or avoid getting involved in the first place, and where no-one's safety is directly at stake.

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