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Thread: Cheapest reliable non-blowback 9mm PCC?

  1. #31
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    So my takeaway from the thread so far is "what you want doesn't exist in the current market." If SIGs were half the price, I'd think about it, but I'd buy a nice AR before that anyday.

    Guess I'll be putting a heavier bolt in the sub-2000 and calling it a day. If I hadn't inherited the sub-2000, I'd probably get a Ruger or a Beretta, but I have a feeling I would have the same issue with them as I do with the Kel-Tec, especially after reading the responses here.

    Thanks, hive mind! Good discussions here....
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldanders View Post
    So my takeaway from the thread so far is "what you want doesn't exist in the current market." If SIGs were half the price, I'd think about it, but I'd buy a nice AR before that anyday.

    Guess I'll be putting a heavier bolt in the sub-2000 and calling it a day. If I hadn't inherited the sub-2000, I'd probably get a Ruger or a Beretta, but I have a feeling I would have the same issue with them as I do with the Kel-Tec, especially after reading the responses here.

    Thanks, hive mind! Good discussions here....
    Where are you getting the heavier bolt for the sub-2000?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  3. #33
    Member AdioSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlwind06 View Post
    Where are you getting the heavier bolt for the sub-2000?
    https://www.keltecweapons.com/produc...y-weight-bolt/

  4. #34
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldanders View Post
    So my takeaway from the thread so far is "what you want doesn't exist in the current market." If SIGs were half the price, I'd think about it, but I'd buy a nice AR before that anyday.

    Guess I'll be putting a heavier bolt in the sub-2000 and calling it a day. If I hadn't inherited the sub-2000, I'd probably get a Ruger or a Beretta, but I have a feeling I would have the same issue with them as I do with the Kel-Tec, especially after reading the responses here.

    Thanks, hive mind! Good discussions here....
    So I bit the bullet and ordered a heavy bolt from Kel Tec. I also ordered a recoil buffer, "recoiless" charging handle, and muzzle break/compensator from M Carbo. I ordered a Talon grip too.

    New post when it shows up and I install everything and test the new configuration. I'm hoping the heavy bolt combined with buffer and heavy charging handle don't lead to feeding problems.
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

  5. #35
    Member Baldanders's Avatar
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    Rural North Central NC
    I installed all the aftermarket parts I ordered aside from the Talon grips.

    Long story short, I got tbe results I was looking for. Much reduced recoil impulse and muzzle flip, and no more rattle or shimy. The red dot in my sight how moves a bit up and down instead of doing a loop-de-loop with every shot. Feels like a 10/22 on steroids. No feeding problems in 200+ rounds.

    Tbe videos from M Carbo for parts installation were informative..it makes it clear that the sub2000 has jack for a recoil management system from the factory.

    I think I will be be springing for one of their trigger upgrade kits in the future.
    REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
    REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
    NO EXCEPTIONS

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Tim year has a PCC-specific trigger, which would seem to indicate that either (a) there is a real issue with breaking 9mm ar triggers or (b) there is a perceived one. Of course, there’s a massive premium there.
    https://timneytriggers.com/ar-pcc-trigger/

    The rise of PCC has been interesting. They’ve long been niche fun guns for most people, rarely shot I’d wager and certainly not at competition-round-counts. The stress testing of the competition app,icstion is resulting in quite a few interesting findings, not the least of which appears to be that there really isn’t an inexpensive way to play.

    Also, re-designing firearms to run in alternate calibers is never a free lunch.

    Also also, modern high-volume shooters stress test designs, both old and new, both as designed and modified, in ways that previous generations likely did not.
    I don't think it's a durability thing with breaking triggers. It's far more of a having functional fire control thing. It's been awhile and it may be different now, but the only aftermarket triggers I'm aware of that actually work are mil-spec (w/non-notched hammer), JP and that Timney you linked. A lot of guys are running Hyperfires but I've seen some that didn't run. I'm a Geissele fanboy of the 1st order but my PCC was a single shot with my Geissele SG3 in it. It would cycle normally EVERY time with the charging handle, but in live fire the hammer would follow the bolt EVERY time resulting in a dead trigger. Extraction and feeding was fine, it would have a live round fully chambered with a dead trigger and it never did double on me. I installed a nickel boron coated mil spec that I had and it hasn't malf'd since. I has something to do with the bolt velocity. The connected non-rotating trigger and hammer pins are nice insurance for pin hole elongation as they spread the force of that non-locked, heavy ass bolt over both pins instead of just the hammer pin.

  7. #37
    Member Gray Ghost's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    I have the following:

    MKE MP5 SBR
    H&K USC/UMP Conversion SBR
    Sig MPX SBR
    H&K SP5K Pistol with SB Tactical Brace

    I also had a Scorpion EVO which I sold.

    My favorite, beyond a shadow of a doubt is the SP5K. It is not cheap by any means, but the build quality is excellent, and it runs like a sewing machine. One advantage of it being a pistol rather than an SBR is I can carry it concealed in my state. It fits nicely in a laptop bag or backpack. The main negative is that it is not easy to mount a light. I have a Trijicon MRO mounted on the factory rail which works well.

    I like the other guns too (otherwise they would be gone like the CZ). I use the MPX as a home defense gun. Mine has run 100%, but it does not have particularly high round count. The selling point of the MPX is that it is modular and easy to swap parts on. That is sort of the Achilles heal of an MP5. Changing the barrel on one is not an easy task and doing it correctly requires a shop press and a milling machine. The MPX barrel can be swapped with two Allen bolts.

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