How bad can reman be?

[ArgentFix]

Against my better judgement, I bought some range counter .40 which I knew to be remanned for my P226. I'd used this "On Target" brand in their rentals before without incident so I was unprepared for this:



After warming up I did 50 rounds slow at 10 yards with On Target (right) followed by 50 Aguila (left, one outlier called). I didn't know it was possible for ammo to be this bad. Examining the On Target holes, it appears some bullets were keyholing! At 10 yards! And possibly disintegrating? I didn't think to take pics of the rounds or pull a bullet since I was more amused than concerned at the time. But the brass was stamped Federal and FC 17 and looked fine. The bullets were normal looking flat-point FMJ.

Obviously I'll never buy this ammo again but sheesh... what gives? Some of you reload, do you think you could even accidentally build a round that looks fine, cycles fine, but performs worse than this?

[GuanoLoco]

Against my better judgement, I bought some range counter .40 which I knew to be remanned for my P226. I'd used this "On Target" brand in their rentals before without incident so I was unprepared for this:



After warming up I did 50 rounds slow at 10 yards with On Target (right) followed by 50 Aguila (left, one outlier called). I didn't know it was possible for ammo to be this bad. Examining the On Target holes, it appears some bullets were keyholing! At 10 yards! And possibly disintegrating? I didn't think to take pics of the rounds or pull a bullet since I was more amused than concerned at the time. But the brass was stamped Federal and FC 17 and looked fine. The bullets were normal looking flat-point FMJ.

Obviously I'll never buy this ammo again but sheesh... what gives? Some of you reload, do you think you could even accidentally build a round that looks fine, cycles fine, but performs worse than this?

Yes.

I’ve seen guys show up to matches with (usually CZ’s) that normally are quite accurate but that are keyholing like crazy. A modest change to their loads (hard to say exaactly what) and the problem disappears.

[WDR]

Reman is like a box of chocolates... you never know what you are going to get. Its almost never cheaper than new, and performance can be bad, as you've seen. I generally avoid anything re-manufactured, besides my own hand loads, and Black Hills ammo.

As for the big tears in the target: I don't think those are keyholes. If you start seeing sideways bullet profile shaped holes in the target, then you are having keyholes. I'm assuming you were shooting a free hanging paper target, such as on an indoor range, with no cardboard backer behind the target? I've seen various loads/bullets tear the paper like that (all flat pointed bullet types) if the target is free hanging and wasn't on a backer of some sort. I've got some .38 and .357 ammo that I've loaded with a plated SWC bullet that does the same thing on free hanging targets at the indoor range, but does not do it with targets stapled to a cardboard backer. I've seen it with flat faced 9mm 147gr FMJ from Winchester and Federal both as well. I believe its just the paper tearing in an odd way vs the flat nose cutting a "wadcutter" type hole. I've never seen it happen with stiff card stock targets, or targets placed on a backer.

[ArgentFix]

As for the big tears in the target: I don't think those are keyholes. If you start seeing sideways bullet profile shaped holes in the target, then you are having keyholes. I'm assuming you were shooting a free hanging paper target, such as on an indoor range, with no cardboard backer behind the target?

Yessir, free-hanging cheap range paper sans backing. It's not the tears but the GSR shapes that imply keyholing to me. That 12 o'clock tear left a flap that, when repaired and with the GSR swipe on the left side, looks to my novice eye like the bullet entered at a ~45 degree angle. The nearby outliers also show more GSR toward certain angles:



Contrast with the Aguila 2 o'clock outliers where the GSR is a ring around the holes:

[WDR]

I can somewhat see what you are pointing out in the zoomed in pics. I'm still not seeing keyholes, but things do look a little oblong maybe. If it was my loads, I'd want to shoot the same ammo on a target with a backer behind it to confirm things. I'd suspect that ammo was loaded with plated bullets, and not FMJ's, and maybe has crimp issues. Just spitballin' there though.


All sorts of things can cause poor accuracy. And the same can be said for keyholes. I've had issues with bullet seating and crimp cause keyholes when I was a new reloader, with plated bullets. I've also seen undersize lots of bullets that shot poorly, and I've seen thin plating cut by the rifling and leaving a "spiral" of lead smear around bullet holes. Lots of ways to screw up otherwise serviceable ammo if you don't know or are not paying attention.

I think the solution is obvious: don't buy that crap anymore.

[LtDave]

A lot of remanufactured ammo uses plated bullets instead of FMJ. They can be problematic to get shooting accurately. I ceased loading them some time ago and now use plastic coated lead instead of plated and get better accuracy.

[Alpha Sierra]

A lot of remanufactured ammo uses plated bullets instead of FMJ. They can be problematic to get shooting accurately. I ceased loading them some time ago and now use plastic coated lead instead of plated and get better accuracy.

This. Not to mention that polymer-coated cast lead bullets are cheaper.

Bout the only plated bullet I'd trust to be true to form would be Berry's double struck, which are supposedly hit with a die one more time after plating. But even then, if the plating is very uneven you will have a bullet that has a nice exterior shape but an uneven internal mass distribution (those thick areas of plating had to go somewhere) and will probably fly like crap.

[TGS]

I've gotten similar results from the Federal 115gr FMJ "Champ" line of ammo sold in Wal-Mart.

[UNM1136]

Kinda related....my old academy used to purchase nearly locally rolled remanufactured ammo. The training sergeant visited the location to check quality, and watched the proprietor working his high capacity Dillon -whatever-50, swiggin' on beer the whole time. The empties in the trash was pretty telling. We were running .40s then, with a choice of Sig P229 or Glock 23.

During the time of Glock Kbs, the department canceled their current order and bought quality off the state contract after that. We still ended up shooting the remaining stock, since all sales were final.

It seems that a lieutenant, one of whose many claims to fame was kicking off his cowboy boots to participate in a foot pursuit while in plain clothes, did a cost-benefit analysis, and determined that the odds of having problems with anything we had in inventory was remote. Accuracy and reliability were not criteria, only squib loads damaging cadet-owned guns.

That was one locally owned small business that went TU as the tale circulated through the state. I don't think they lasted another two years.

pat