124 +P Gold Dot, G43 and NYPD...

[spyderco monkey]

Plus P and NATO spec are what 9mm is supposed to be. The weak sauce 115 grain stuff is a U.S. debasement.

It's not just the 115gr ammo that watered down - it seems to be nearly all factory ammo.

For example, Speer 124gr Lawman is 1090fps - aka 124gr Subsonic.

Meanwhile 9BPLE +P+ is actually just a "real" +p load of 38,500psi. I could go on.

At least its not quite as depressing as the state of 10mm factory ammo.

Its a bizarre situation where firearms have gotten consistently higher quality and stronger, yet the ammunition they fire is getting consistently weaker.

[fatdog]

Anyone remember the mysterious "Phase Five" malfunctions that plagued NYPD in the late 90s when they went to Glocks?

I remember that Glock set up a trailer workshop at the NYPD range to diagnose it.

What ever came of that?

What I was told at one of the Glock armorer schools was that using a +P connector and the orange heavy NY-2 trigger return spring was the likely culprit, and I just don't remember what the mechanical details that cause that are. It remains a warning in the armorer course never to combine the +P connector with the NY-2 trigger spring, aside from rendering an atrocious trigger.

[feudist]

What I was told at one of the Glock armorer schools was that using a +P connector and the orange heavy NY-2 trigger return spring was the likely culprit, and I just don't remember what the mechanical details that cause that are. It remains a warning in the armorer course never to combine the +P connector with the NY-2 trigger spring, aside from rendering an atrocious trigger.

Wow, NYPD really didn't want those guns to "go off" did they?

[BigT]

What I was told at one of the Glock armorer schools was that using a +P connector and the orange heavy NY-2 trigger return spring was the likely culprit, and I just don't remember what the mechanical details that cause that are. It remains a warning in the armorer course never to combine the +P connector with the NY-2 trigger spring, aside from rendering an atrocious trigger.

The gun won't fire with a + connector and a NY spring.

[HCM]

What I was told at one of the Glock armorer schools was that using a +P connector and the orange heavy NY-2 trigger return spring was the likely culprit, and I just don't remember what the mechanical details that cause that are. It remains a warning in the armorer course never to combine the +P connector with the NY-2 trigger spring, aside from rendering an atrocious trigger.

They did not make the orange and OD NY springs at that time. The original NY springs were black and white.

As Big T noted the NY2 spring and plus connector will cause issues firing but will not cause the malfunctions NYPD experienced. It was an extraction / ejection issue. Glock made changes to the slides, barrel hoods and extractors to address it.

[deputyG23]

Plus P and NATO spec are what 9mm is supposed to be. The weak sauce 115 grain stuff is a U.S. debasement.

Glocks are sprung to be reliable service pistols used with service ammunition (NATO) in harsh environments with little to no maintenance. Your needs may vary.

I put a D spring in all my Beretta 92s. For my needs CONUS the 26lb standard main spring is over sprung.

If I was in a third world country shooting third world 9mm ammo the stronger spring makes perfect sense.

When my place started the Glock transition in ‘89, two of our instructors went to Smyrna for instructors training. The folks at Glock told them “the hotter the better” in regards to ammo. They shot IMI black tip 9mm, I was told.
We used Winchester 9mm NATO ammo for training and Ranger SXT 127 grain +P+ for duty.

[Bucky]

Unless one is mandated, I don’t favor using +P in the 43. Over the chronograph, there’s a velocity drop off versus longer barreled pistols. Ammo like 147 HST standard pressure seems to lose very little velocity.

[NoLock]

I had an early one and I had issues with 124 + p. I am a civilian and I was told by an active duty NYPD member that he was told it wasn't approved for off duty carry due to issues with this ammo.

[Det1397]

I had an early one and I had issues with 124 + p. I am a civilian and I was told by an active duty NYPD member that he was told it wasn't approved for off duty carry due to issues with this ammo.

Can you or the MOS please elaborate?

[NoLock]

Can you or the MOS please elaborate?

I had repeated failures to feed. I don't remember how the g 43 came up in a conversation but he said he was told the test guns had the same issues with the same ammo.

My gun went back to Glock and was sold.