Using a Vortex Venom or Viper or similar sight on an EDC

[Ancient1]

Hi, My eyes are going and I can still hit the bullseye at 10 yds but I can't react to movement due to my bad eyes. I also can't wear my shooting glasses all day for my EDC because I really want to see distance. I have held a 1911 with a reflex sight (not venom or viper but similar) and I liked it. I could aim fast from a draw to aim and fire. I didn't seem to have an issue with acquiring the target, or changing targets to follow movements. But I was told my my armorer that I would not like it. He could not explain why, but he would mount it and remove it when I wanted to go back.

My EDC which I carry anytime I leave the house, is a Colt Combat Commander 45acp. It is big and heavy and it feels great. I am big and it conceals under my fat very well. I wear it at about 4 o'clock in an IWB and unless I bend over, it stays concealed. My concerns are two fold: 1. How well do these sights hold up to EDC. 2. How much would this compromise my concealment? I have measured and they will fit well and not go over the width of the slide, and I have found an appropriate mounting plate and I have talked to Crossbreed holsters and they said they have a SuperTuck that will mate with proposed configuration. (a side note: I love the crossbreed super tuck). I have used it for a long time.

So are there any conceal carry people out there that uses a reflex sight for their EDC and if so, is it concealable and rugged enough for EDC.

Thanks so much,
Jim

[ubervic]

Vortex Venom on a G17.3 carried AIWB. Only a few weeks of experience with this setup. So far I love it.

There is zero change/impact to concealmeant. Can't really comment on ruggedness----I don't baby the rig but don't beat on it, either. Again, been carrying this for only about a month.

[Ancient1]

Vortex Venom on a G17.3 carried AIWB. Only a few weeks of experience with this setup. So far I love it.

There is zero change/impact to concealmeant. Can't really comment on ruggedness----I don't baby the rig but don't beat on it, either. Again, been carrying this for only about a month.

Hi UberVic,

This is great to hear. Now I have to wait for the proper time to talk my wife into spending the money.

So why the venom over the viper? Just curious.

Jim

[Trukinjp13]

My EDC. This is how I carry over 90% of the time. It conceals perfectly with the jmck iwb3 and the tlr7. I trust this rig with my life. Has never gave me a reason not to. I would not trust a vortex for edc though. Same as most other mrds, some work most don’t. Save the coin. BOCO.

There is not a optic on the market for a pistol that has been Aimpoint t2 reliable. That is a fact. The Acro may be. But that will take time to work out. I trust my rmr2 but I know a few have had problems. The chance was totally worth it for me. It has made me a better shooter. With or without a dot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Mini red dot sights (MRDS) are great for shooters with vision issues. You should see an immediate improvement in accuracy at distance. If you are used to iron sights, there will be a learning curve for close / fast shooting. Most people find they are initially a little slower with the MRDS but that goes away if you put the work in.

As mentioned, MRDS on a handgun slides have a hard life. The Vortex venom and viper are ok for range use but have some durability and reliability issues making them a poor choice for EDC. The current choice for EDC or duty use is the Trijicon RMR. Aimpoint has a new MRDS coming out called the Acro which many believe will supplant the RMR.

[UNM1136]

Mini red dot sights (MRDS) are great for shooters with vision issues. You should see an immediate improvement in accuracy at distance. If you are used to iron sights, there will be a learning curve for close / fast shooting. Most people find they are initially a little slower with the MRDS but that goes away if you put the work in.

As mentioned, MRDS on a handgun slides have a hard life. The Vortex venom and viper are ok for range use but have some durability and reliability issues making them a poor choice for EDC. The current choice for EDC or duty use is the Trijicon RMR. Aimpoint has a new MRDS coming out called the Acro which many believe will supplant the RMR.

And at close range alternative sight pictures need to be recognized and encouraged. Speed comes with the idea of "see what you need to see to make the shot". GJM refers to a "streaking" dot, while others of us point out that if they are close enough that the entire window is taken up by a target, then pressing the trigger is the right thing to do. I really don't think either of us is wrong. I have an RMR and am waiting for an Acro. Lasers, particularly green, are also helpful.

pat

[ubervic]

Hi UberVic,

This is great to hear. Now I have to wait for the proper time to talk my wife into spending the money.

So why the venom over the viper? Just curious.

Jim

I don't carry 100% of the time like others on here seem to do. I'm not LEO or .mil. I am in non-permissive environments very often. Take my comments accordingly.

My vision has deteriorated due to age, making iron sight shooting a real chore. Wanted to try an RDS system that was easy to use, reasonably robust and reasonably low-cost. Venom seemed a great way to go, and I'm glad I went this way.

All that said, I can tell you that I'm already experiencing stronger results with IRON SIGHTS ALONE. That's right. It's as if the red dot dynamics (tracking and constant wobble) make iron sight dynamics seem simpler, more stable, and overall easier to manage. Words are potentially failing me here, but I feel more "confident and effective" shooting both sighting technologies.

While I don't carry 100% of the time, I do not feel as though I'm very disadvabtaged running the Venom vs the RMR. No red dot is 100% reliable----that's why most people run back up sights and practice sighting with them. Also, I struggle a bit with the idea about EDC use being so demanding, since most guns carried by non-LEO or non-military are never drawn from the holster 99+% of the time (outside of training).

Let each user weigh the pros and cons based on his own beliefs, intended use, etc.

[Ancient1]

Hi UberVic,

I agree totally. The few times I have presented a weapon with a red dot attached took a short time before it was presented perfectly. The reflex sight is not very forgiving if you don't present properly. Then acquiring the target was intuitive once presentation was achieved. Then learning to keep both eyes open was the next step. That required an unlearning but it didn't take long. Once learning to keep both eyes open the act of the sight to a different target was extremely easy. The dot required that Hand, Head, Eye more as one (that sounds a bit zen to me, but true). It was a freaking blast to see perfectly and move as fast as I did when I was under 20 years old. The next time I went to the range with iron sights, my presentation held and I could acquire the target twice as fast and able to center much better. I had almost no break in period with the reflex sight and it carried over to the iron sights. I will still have to practice to keep both eyes open on my presentation. Unlearning is a real pain but needs to be instinctive.

As for how hard I am on my EDC: I only pull it to put it up or to put it away. I take it to the range, but it only gets pulled several times just to practice presentation and then stays out for the remainder of my practice. My holster currently is an Alien Gear IWB (only because it was cheaper than the Super Tuck from CrossBreed). I know I need a new holster for the new configuration, so I will go back to the CrossBreed SuperTuck. I have already checked with CrossBreed and they carry it. I have slept with my crossbreed MiniTuck and my S&W Shield 45 and forgot I had it on. My wife asked me if I knew I was sleeping in it, and I realized that I didn't even know it. We were in a hotel and I just jumped in the bed after a long walk with my wife without removing my gun. I also had a SuperTuck for my S&W model 59, 9mm which was very comfortable. The leather should protect the sight well and the kydex really holds the weapon well, and IWB adds an extra protection to my guns. Most of the wear and abuse will happen as I pull and insert the gun into the holster, but the Kydex makes it easier by holding the holster open for insertion. The slide action is the other thing that will put a lot abuse on the sight, but from what I have read, the Venoms are good at not going out of zero.

This is a no brainer for me. If it does break, I will go to my backup till I get the vortex fixed or replaced (under lifetime warranty). I will get a Trijicon RMR the next time I get a new EDC (a Wilson or Les Baer), but that is a few years down the road.

I really appreciate the feed back,

Jim

[Ancient1]

Hi UberVic,
I have decided. Venom it is! My local gun shop will sell it for internet price. I will buy it first and take it to my eye appointment. I noticed a slight ray burst on the right side when I tested the reflex sights. I checked and it said that it was a symptom of Astigmatism. I think I can use this to make sure my astig is perfectly correct with my new glasses. Kill 2 birds with one shot. Once done and I pay off the reflex with my mad money, I can talk my wife into letting me buy the new mounting plate and holster. This will give me time to practice using the sight and keeping both eyes open. I love it when a plan comes together.

Thanks for the help,
Jim

I don't carry 100% of the time like others on here seem to do. I'm not LEO or .mil. I am in non-permissive environments very often. Take my comments accordingly.

My vision has deteriorated due to age, making iron sight shooting a real chore. Wanted to try an RDS system that was easy to use, reasonably robust and reasonably low-cost. Venom seemed a great way to go, and I'm glad I went this way.

All that said, I can tell you that I'm already experiencing stronger results with IRON SIGHTS ALONE. That's right. It's as if the red dot dynamics (tracking and constant wobble) make iron sight dynamics seem simpler, more stable, and overall easier to manage. Words are potentially failing me here, but I feel more "confident and effective" shooting both sighting technologies.

While I don't carry 100% of the time, I do not feel as though I'm very disadvabtaged running the Venom vs the RMR. No red dot is 100% reliable----that's why most people run back up sights and practice sighting with them. Also, I struggle a bit with the idea about EDC use being so demanding, since most guns carried by non-LEO or non-military are never drawn from the holster 99+% of the time (outside of training).

Let each user weigh the pros and cons based on his own beliefs, intended use, etc.

[ubervic]

Hi UberVic,
I have decided. Venom it is! My local gun shop will sell it for internet price. I will buy it first and take it to my eye appointment. I noticed a slight ray burst on the right side when I tested the reflex sights. I checked and it said that it was a symptom of Astigmatism. I think I can use this to make sure my astig is perfectly correct with my new glasses. Kill 2 birds with one shot. Once done and I pay off the reflex with my mad money, I can talk my wife into letting me buy the new mounting plate and holster. This will give me time to practice using the sight and keeping both eyes open. I love it when a plan comes together.

Thanks for the help,
Jim

Let us know how you like it once you get everything dialed in.

I continue to learn a lot from using it, as it is a combination of an 'easier' or 'simpler' sighting technology (for my older eyes) as well as a shooting coach (as it calls for a more disciplined index than iron sights do). Hard to describe, but it almost makes the shooting process easier while still holding me accountable.

I fully understand why so many believe that the Trijicon RMR is the only way to go. I suppose that makes perfect sense for those how put their gear to much harder use than I. So be it. Meanwhile, I really enjoy my setup and am satisfied.